The Great Faith Debate

[Bak]

the spaghetti monster theory is just a theory just like classical evolution is a theory. neither one can be proven or disproven

[all_shall_perish]

the facts are in The Bible, and in short if you don't believe in the Resurection of Jesus Christ, well, you're going to !@#$%^&*, plain and simple. It's pretty easy to understand if you take the time to pray for wisdom, understanding and discernment.

 

Unfortunately, I, nor you, have the answers past this life. To claim that you have the answers about things you, in reality, know nothing about all because you read some rule book written by man is fairly insane.

 

"The inspiration of the Bible depends upon the ignorance of the gentleman who reads it." ~Robert G. Ingersoll

 

All the claims I've seen you make in defense of your God are backed by the Bible and the word of God. Unfortunately, that kind of logic only works for you and the others that follow the word of God, so you haven't proven much to the rest of the world besides that the fact that, again, you're probably insane.

 

You also mentioned that it would be a sad affair that some of us non-believer folk would raise children. On the contrary, it is a very sad and disgusting affair that you yourself will (or maybe already have) brainwash your children with this faith you take to be truth. Rather than bless them with free thought you'd rather !@#$%^&* them to a faith based on hypocrisy, fallacies, circular logic, and hate.

 

I a non-morman, also !@#$%^&*he every thing I earn. Why? Because The Bible, GODS WORD says to do so. It's all his anyways. If I'm faithful in giving 10% of what I earn, I get so much more back. It would make much more sense to you if you researched !@#$%^&*hing. Again, so many people are missing fruit they have no idea is hanging right in front of them.

 

The churches want donations because the priests live off of them. It should be expected that the poor will preach charity.

 

It is very disappointing to see such human potential wasted when people let greedy hypocrites, called priests, control their minds.

 

THE ONLY FACT IN THE CREATION V EVOLUTION DEBATE is that NEITHER CAN BE PROVEN.

 

"Creationist make is sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night" ~Isaac Asimov

 

I guess it depends on which you find to be more ridiculous. If you ask me, creationism is a pretty ridiculous notion based on the in-turn ridiculous idea of a God. Evolution on the other hand was a well thought out theory based on controlled data collected over many many many years and analyzed in both a quan!@#$%^&*ative and qualitative fashion.

 

(No longer directed at thunderjam)

Creationism is the one silver bullet Christians and the like hold because they can simply say "oh well God knew that was going to happen and he did it." Which means, to them anyways, that their religion cannot be dis proven. This is a great security blanket to hold onto until you realize that your religion and the word of God can't be proven either so you've still just got a story written in a book, by man.

 

Sometimes I wish that I was actually a man of faith because it tends to be a lot easier to p!@#$%^&* through this life blindly and without thought than think about the reality and practicality of such topics.

Edited November 3, 2007 by all_shall_perish

[ThunderJam]

I think im done with this topic after this, since everything being said now was already debated oh...what five pages ago?

 

Basically we went over Protestant violence v Catholic violence. Creationism being able to coincide with evolution. Creationism order of events being identical to how evolutionist say events unfolded, and I posted plenty of links of huge gaps that would have had to taken place at the chemical level in order for evolution to take place. Read back people.

 

And if Jesus came back it wouldnt prove creationism true? Sigh, this is why I am done arguing this. So stupid. Jesus affirmed the old testament, the old testament was basically a preamble to Jesus' arrival. It dictated why we needed a savior, prophecies, etc, etc. If Jesus came back, it would confirm the new testament account of Jesus was true and therefore the old testament was too. If you don't think so, you're just being nit picky and trying to find flaws where they don't exist.

 

Peace

[Bak]

how would jesus coming back confirm anything written in the bible, except that he'd come back?

 

also kkk was a protestant group that har!@#$%^&*ed catholics (in addition to blacks).

 

 

ok so I went back and read your link. It's main point is that life coming from non-life is impossible (which is, by the way, just a single part of evolution). it also states "There are only two possibilities for the existence of life" which is not true at all. my spaghetti monster "theory" is a third. Also, some of the points are incorrect (I don't know enough biology to argue them all, although it's easy to win arguments when one side is arguing).

 

One point presented is that life coming from non-life is against the second law of thermodynamics (entropy). However, this law only applies to closed systems, whereas the earth is receiving, to this day, a constant supply of energy from the sun and is NOT a closed system.

 

Also, that site is ridiculous, it has pages dedicated to saying why harry potter and pokemon are destroying youth.

 

anyways, TJ, I agree that evolution should be presented as a theory in the classroom. When I learned Darwinian evolution, they presented it alongside Lamarckian evolution and the theory that life spontaneously came to existence from non-life. When you learned it in school did they not mention it was a theory?

Edited November 4, 2007 by Bak

[all_shall_perish]

Also, that site is ridiculous, it has pages dedicated to saying why harry potter and pokemon are destroying youth.

exactly

The more I see you reference articles thunderjam, the more I realize you are at least somewhat (but more probable: entirely) misinformed.

 

Creationism order of events being identical to how evolutionist say events unfolded, and I posted plenty of links of huge gaps that would have had to taken place at the chemical level in order for evolution to take place. Read back people.

 

Filling those gaps with "God did it" doesn't really make any more sense too me though. God creates more questions than he answers I guess because he works in "mysterious" ways right?

 

The truth of the matter is, to deny the existence of God(s) is no better than acknowledging their existence: you simply don't know either way and there is no way you can know. To claim that you know otherwise is outrageous and you will be labeled incredibly ignorant and insane by those who actually understand this problem.

 

Believe in whatever you want to believe, but at the end of the day you have to be able to say "I could be wrong. This is just my best guest."

Edited November 4, 2007 by all_shall_perish

[Bak]

Does good evidence exist for creationism? Can that evidence for creationism be classified as very good evidence? If so, what is the very best evidence for creationism?

 

Creation is one of two possible origin explanations. Both life and everything we see was either created or it evolved by a random process. Consequently, any evidence against evolution is very good evidence for creationism.

 

lol!

[SeVeR]

Consequently, any evidence against evolution is very good evidence for creationism.

...and that's why creationists will never be taken seriously by anyone outside their sphere of ignorance.

[ThunderJam]

I'm not arguing any more, but I wanted to point out that allshallperish used a quote about harry potter and pokemon against me... but i never said anything about harry potter or pokemon... what they heck he was quoting I have no idea.

[JDS]

im still curious of why people care so much about the bible, its not like it REALLY came from god..

[Bak]

i never said anything about harry potter or pokemon... what they heck he was quoting I have no idea.

 

tj we like to hear your point of view, even if it's different from ours. otherwise our perspective is just limited to people who agree with us which isn't very enlightening

 

the pokemon/harry potter thing came up because the site you posted with evidence against evolution also had pages saying harry potter and pokemon were destroying youth, so this was an attack on the credibility of your source.

Edited November 5, 2007 by Bak

[all_shall_perish]

indeed

[Bak]

edit: NEVER MIND IT WAS MEANT TO BE SATIRE

 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2...ck-young-is-old

[Bak]

if the jews didn't kill jesus he could never resurrect and we'd all be going to !@#$%^&* for not believing in da resurrection.

 

discuss.

[NBVegita]

On the flip side, what if Christ had led a full life, !@#$%^&*uming the Christian belief that he is God's son, that he might have accomplished salvation of all of man? Possibly the reverse of Adam and Eve.

[JDS]

on the flip side, what if he didn't exist and your wasting your time and ours discussing all this?

[ThunderJam]

if the jews didn't kill jesus he could never resurrect and we'd all be going to !@#$%^&* for not believing in da resurrection.

 

discuss.

God foresaw them killing him, and it was planned to happen in such a way. Yes people unfortunately tend to fault the jews for not recognizing him, but it was meant to happen this way. The ressurection is a key point in the gospel, without it we would not see that He has conquered death and sin. The fact that he did after taking everyone's sins upon him showed what is in store for us if we believe in him.

 

On the flip side, what if Christ had led a full life, !@#$%^&*uming the Christian belief that he is God's son, that he might have accomplished salvation of all of man? Possibly the reverse of Adam and Eve.

Well, his death and ressurection was designed to be able to save all of mankind. It gives men a choice whether or not to believe, which we could argue is good or bad. Should everyone automatically have been saved? Seems like that would be nice, but then again we value our freedom of choice so much, who knows.

[JDS]

hehe free choice to not believe but the consequence is dire , i hardly call that free choice

 

 

i don't know you can live with the mentality that your whole entire life has already been scripted out for you. Humans are more A dynamic character than a static scripted one. And its really not logical to think that your life is predetermined.

Edited November 17, 2007 by JDS

[Bak]

it's logically fine, just unpleasant and not really useful (if you start thinking choices are made for you then you stop making choices and thus, do nothing).

 

so TJ, if God foresaw the Jews killing Jesus, and it was meant to happen this way (your words), then did the Jews kill Jesus out of their own free will? After all, God is all-knowing, so his plan or vision was going to happen 100% right? It seems like at least some Jews would have had to kill Jesus and thus go to !@#$%^&*, in order to give the rest of us a shot at Heaven. Talk about taking one for the team.

[ThunderJam]

hehe free choice to not believe but the consequence is dire , i hardly call that free choice

 

 

i don't know you can live with the mentality that your whole entire life has already been scripted out for you. Humans are more A dynamic character than a static scripted one. And its really not logical to think that your life is predetermined.

It's a choice to believe the Bible or not. Obviously your choosing not to, so it is a free choice.

 

As far as life beign scripted, this also applied to what you said in the next post Bak, thats an long long debate. Whether or not God has decided how your life will be, and whether or not you have "free choice." I myself think thats its like we have free choice, but God already knows what we will choose. So hes not necesarily making us choose a certain thing, but he already knows what we will choose.

[AstroProdigy]

If Jesus came down from Heaven to save mankind I'd be happy to believe in him and go to church every week and pray every day as would most everyone else, thus saving so many more souls. The fact that he doesn't means either he either only wants people with weak wills in heaven and despises strong willed people (scared of them maybe?) or he doesn't exist. Either way this naturally leads me to believe God hates intelligence and thus we must kill all intellectuals and firebomb every school because it is HIS will.

 

All I mean by this sarcasm is that you can infer just about anything from the Bible if you really want to so you can either use your own brain to do what is right or you're a piece of !@#$%^&*.

Edited November 17, 2007 by AstroProdigy

[ThunderJam]

Astro half the crap you guys say you can infer tho, there is stuff against it in the bible, so thats really not true at all. You guys say "becase it says X, i can infer that God wants Y" without taking into account that it also says crap againt Y

[AstroProdigy]

Astro half the crap you guys say you can infer tho, there is stuff against it in the bible, so thats really not true at all. You guys say "becase it says X, i can infer that God wants Y" without taking into account that it also says crap againt Y

 

There is stuff against a lot of things in the Bible where there is also something for it. It really doesn't matter because as you would admit man is imperfect and thus none of us can ever have a perfect interpretation of the Bible. Thus acting like we do or citing the Bible for controversial issues like homosexuality where the Bible also conflicts only shows the insecurity of the citing party in not being able to morally accept their stance on homosexuality or convince others to do so without using a conflicting Bible to do so.

[ThunderJam]

Astro i think u simply don't know wat your talking about. Yes men are imperfect so interpretation may not be perfect, but most the bible is pretty straight forward, unlike many of you skeptics who think we have to draw strange correlations to make anything of it. Please show me where the bible presents conflicting views about homosexuality.

[AstroProdigy]

Tell me where the Bible says racism or sexism is wrong. Don't !@#$%^&* me with "love thy neighbor" crap or something saying to treat women well because the Bible also says to treat animals well, but that doesn't mean they're seen as any less inferior. The Bible says a lot of things and even though MOST might not be contradictory there are lots and lots of examples that are, even some of the most major ones. Find somewhere where the Bible says to try to limit those we disagree with. The bible says any non Christian religion is immoral, but does that mean we must limit those religions? Edited November 17, 2007 by AstroProdigy

[ThunderJam]

You bring up the bible being contradictory to justify homosexuality. I ask where it presents contradictory viewpoints on homosexuality, and instead of answering, u swerve and ask me to present information. Im not the one challenging it, you were. You said it, and when asked to back it up, you skirt the topic.