Galactic Melee

[Smong]

The one thing that pisses me off though, is that the ships have friction... c'mon, it's space! where's the friction coming from? It's a total drag anyways.

Lol there is very slight friction is SubSpace too at least in SVS - try it, fire your boosters, let go and wait... eventually you will slow down.

I hope you are referring to when you bounce off a wall you lose some speed.

[AhmedF]

Friction was added to help newbies learn how to fly. The wraith is an absolute monster when flying.

 

Bouncing off walls is hard because in Subspace you bounce off in a re!@#$%^&* 90 degree manner. It takes time, but it allows for far better and more complex gameplay.

 

Anyway - pandering to the SS crowd is like asking to fail.

 

As for owning/killing people? Come on - you either have players like me and seismic (old warzone players who rack up huge ratios), or complete newbies who've never played online asteroids. Of course you will rack up easy kills on them - they can't even fly and fire, much less do anything else.

[Synook]

The one thing that pisses me off though, is that the ships have friction... c'mon, it's space! where's the friction coming from? It's a total drag anyways.

Lol there is very slight friction is SubSpace too at least in SVS - try it, fire your boosters, let go and wait... eventually you will slow down.

I hope you are referring to when you bounce off a wall you lose some speed.

Oh - that would be it is there really no friction in SS? Always feels like there is some...

[AhmedF]

There is no friction in SVS.

[sil]

Bouncing off walls is hard because in Subspace you bounce off in a re!@#$%^&* 90 degree manner.

 

No you don't. You bounce off the mirror of your angle of entry accros a perpendicular line that starts on the point you hit the wall. This is how it works in real world physics when hit a flat plane.

[rootbear75]

Edited July 27, 2007 by rootbear75

[AhmedF]

Bouncing off walls is hard because in Subspace you bounce off in a re!@#$%^&* 90 degree manner.

 

No you don't. You bounce off the mirror of your angle of entry accros a perpendicular line that starts on the point you hit the wall. This is how it works in real world physics when hit a flat plane.

 

Are you kidding me? One of the 'big' things about CR was that you bounce of correctly. rootbear pointed it our correctly anyway - this is grade 11 physics champ

 

As for how is this game suppoused to be different: http://www.galacticmelee.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=166 - sounds !@#$%^&* interesting.

[Hakaku]

Last I checked, you don't bounce off on a 90 degree angle in Continuum. If that were true, then technically if you flew perpendicularly into a wall, you would bounce off 90 degrees to the right or left

 

As for owning/killing people? Come on - you either have players like me and seismic (old warzone players who rack up huge ratios), or complete newbies who've never played online asteroids. Of course you will rack up easy kills on them - they can't even fly and fire, much less do anything else.

Yeah but the thing is, I was level 1, he was level 8 or so, which means he had to know how to play (that + he knew what SS & ce were). And he accused me of hacking, which was pretty funny imo.

[Caddy]

The game isn't half bad, it just has a few flaws (Space friction, bumping). The diagonal walls are cute though, but the stuff is just so overpriced.

[Samapico]

Last I checked, you don't bounce off on a 90 degree angle in Continuum. If that were true, then technically if you flew perpendicularly into a wall, you would bounce off 90 degrees to the right or left

 

Subspace physics are correct when it comes to bouncing... If you hit a wall right on, you won't be bounced 90 degrees off...wtf.

It may seem like this because when you hit a wall, both your horizontal speed and vertical speed are reduced, which is the only 'unrealistic' thing in there...

[»doc flabby]

subspace bounces like the one of the right.

 

The bounce in subspace is correct.

 

if anyones ever played ?go starcon in TW thats almost exactly how that armada thing sounds like. Its alot of fun, i look forward to trying it out!

[Hakaku]

Ok, so I'm not crazy. Comparatively, at this stage, SubSpace has more natural bounce than Galactic Melee. In GM, just by tapping the wall, you go flying away. So in corridors, it's impossible to control the bounce because the bounce factor is too high. But I know Rak'kar knows about this

[AhmedF]

subspace bounces like the one of the right.

 

The bounce in subspace is correct.

 

if anyones ever played ?go starcon in TW thats almost exactly how that armada thing sounds like. Its alot of fun, i look forward to trying it out!

 

ONLY in the case of horizontal/vertical walls. There is no support for any sort of angled wall - there are 'pseudo' 45 degree angle walls, off of which the bounce is absolutely wrong.

[Hakaku]

SubSpace doesn't support any other angles. Those 45 degree angles you're talking about are mere square blocks put together with an image that creates the illusion that the arrangement of tiles should create a 45 degree. SubSpace was never meant to support angled tiles of any sort, they're all interpreted as square blocks. Just look at the original VIE tileset, no angled tiles, all lines & square tiles (16x16). - Which means that SS handles everything as it was suppose to handle them.

 

To further explain my point:

*There's no actual transparency on the tiles, so usually it's filled in with black (here white, due to a white bg).

[AhmedF]

no I know its fake 45 degrees. I'm well aware of sprites and XOR and etc

 

My point is that adding angled walls brings in a whole new level imo - I've had some kills/deaths because of a 15 degree angled wall - makes for far more interesting and powerful gameplay.

[Gravitron]

SubSpace has 48 angles, Infantry/CR has 248, or something close to that (I forgot the actual numbers).

 

I prefer SubSpace's.

 

The bouncing of ships and bullets is far less intuitive, far less predictable (for both human pilots and network prediction code) and all in all causes for a gigantic mess with all these too many angles.

 

I don't know about continuum, but SubSpace has ZERO friction, always.

If you come to a stop it is because bouncing off walls which reduce your overall speed by 15% or so (SVS was set to something like 75% of speed retained, IIRC) and you cannot evade running into a wall sooner or later (even in a full empty map you end up ramming the map edges).

[L.C.]

I don't know about continuum, but SubSpace has ZERO friction, always.

Yup. Zero friction is correct. Don't misunderstand Ori Klein when he says this, because he means that when you let your ship fly in open space and you aren't touching your keyboard, ship zone ever slow down. Then again, this is realistic because it is based in space. If you bounce off a wall however, you do lose speed (thus bounce friction, or atleast some realistic physics).

[Samapico]

SubSpace has 48 angles

If you're talking about the ship angles, make that 40 (9 degrees per tick)

[Gravitron]

I went and looked it up:

 

SubSpace - 40 angles.

Infantry/CosmicRift - 240 angles.

[Dav]

the 40 angles in SS are plenty, they give you adequate control and the ability to pinpoint rotate your ship as much as you would ever need, posiibly better then you would with more.

 

Only downside is the smoothness of the gfx with larger ships or slow rotation speeds.

 

Would be nice with future devolpment to allow 45 dgree walls to bounce correctly.

[AhmedF]

That wasn't the point - the angles of walls are only two - 90 and 0 - have different angles (even at 5 degrees) is far more complex.

[Gravitron]

To advocate the method of SubSpace over Cosmic Rift:

 

SubSpace's success was highly in part due to it being based around the K.I.S.S principle.

The limited angles work perfectly to that end.

In SubSpace, SVS, part of the skill is that a veteran would be better able to bounce off of an asteroid (or a wall) to a greater effect of avoiding being hit by an opponent's fire and confusing the enemy.

On the other hand, a newbie will be poor at performing bounces and infact the bounce works against them and turn them into a more easily predictable target for the veteran to aim at.

In addition, in SS when an opponent rushes towards an asteroid (which is a square) they're likely to either miss it and go over it or below it (they're still able to thrust up or down) or bounce back at a 180' angle, this creates good opportunity for the attacker if they're able to guess correctly, or use their fire to lead ahead the prey, where the opponent will go.

Whilest in CR, on the very same situation (asteroid is either a square, diamond, hexagon or octagon), the opponent may merely thrust slightly at most (which can end them on a 45' edge of an asteroid) and get sent perpendicularly up, perpendicularly down, miss the asteroid above, miss the asteroid below or bounce back at 180' angle.

This creates great difficulty for the chaser to both follow the runner with his ship and to have their fire follow the runner.

Instead of choosing one of three directions to which aim and put their weapons' bear to the chaser now has to choose one of five...this leads to wide and vastly ineffective weapon fire dispersion, depletion of chasers' energy reserves (needlessly, IMHO) and grants the runner a great (again, needlessly, IMHO) advantage.

Bouncing needs consist a measure of predictability from the game mechanism (limited bounce angles), combined with a measure of cunning and ingenuity from the end-user skills (thrust use at players' discretion, rotation aim at players' discretion).

 

Sometimes, when faced with a gameplay decision, the designer need step back and ask themselves whether it makes the game better or worse; certainly, technically, the engine is far more superior...but is having so many more angles really going to help the game, or does it just over complicates to a painful degree it whereas a simpler mean would suffice to an even larger degree of successful implementation of the design.

Moderation is key, as they say.

Features are good...but there's no need to over-accessorize something that's working just well as is and without further meddlings.

[»doc flabby]

LOL

 

Personally where I see subspace dying and GM failing is the SVS style settings.

 

The SVS settings to me (a newbie) are boring as !@#$%^&*,

TW and EG settings are exciting and make for fun zones to play, its no coincidence there are the two most popular zones now.

They are the zones that attract the new blood.

 

 

In SVS

 

1. Its impossible to kill any vets.

2. Your ship feels slow, unresponsive and uncontrollable

3. Slow Gameplay (green for ages and then die)

4. My little brother says it sucks

5. Hard to understand why you shoot someone alot and they don't die

 

IN GM

 

1. Its too easy kill.

2. Your ship still feels slow, unresponsive and uncontrollable

3. Slow gameplay (wait for nme, kill, wait, repeat)

4. My little brother says it sucks

5. Hard to understand why you randomly die sometimes without appearing to be hit by anything.

 

Thats how it feels for a newbie like me.

[AhmedF]

Well - just tell Rakkar to make an ADD zone for you.

[Gravitron]

1. Wrong.

2. Wrong.

3. Wrong.

4. Too easy.

5. Wrong.

 

 

1. Balance issues.

2. I want my jav.

3. Lack of testers.

4. Too easy.

5. Get off AOL.