Autocloak legality/Mod Abuse?

[ipwn]

First off I would like to explain what the autocloak program really is. Run in full screen with 16 bit color, the program scans through the cloak icon and depending on the color a key simulation will either trigger the home key or not trigger the home key.

 

According to past precedence... from http://forums.sscentral.com/index.php?showtopic=14550

 

"The only bots able to enter hyperspace are chatnet based bots, which can't leave spec." Dr Brain

"It wasn't a bot. He was using a program that simulated keystrokes. There was no way for him to cheat with it." Dr Brain

"I talked to him about it, used pixel color detection from the radar" D1st0rt

 

and the bottom line...

"He didn't modify the client at all, so no, it's not cheating." Dr Brain

"My original answer was "yes"." Dr Brain

 

The case which Masaru was presenting was that "Masaru> Gives an unfair advantage through a 3rd party program"

 

Therefore my first question, although mostly answered my jrmod Masaru and dev Quigybobo, is Autocloak officially illegal? (I have the source code however I cannot release it unless I have permission from Spaceman7)

 

Back to the main points of this topic:

 

Recently around 4 pm EST got bounty? was banned by Quigybobo for using an autocloak program. Base upon past precedence listed above including past use of bak bot and the autocloak program itself by other users, we !@#$%^&*umed that the autocloak program was in fact legal. However upon use, got bounty? was banned without warning for 1 week by the non-mod Quigybobo for using a third party hacking utility. Afterwards concerned members of the hyperspace community posed a question to Quigybobo and the mods online.

 

The first point I have on the current situation is that Quigybobo is not a moderator or at least not listed in ?listmod. Shouldn't developers with power leave the moderation to the hyperspace moderation staff as listed in ?listmod?.

 

The second point is that based upon past precedence including use of the autocloak program. Shouldn't it be inappropriate to ban prior to issuing a warning?

 

The third point is the legality of banning for no reason. During the course of our discussion, "Quigybobo> YOur pissing me off, keep it up and I'll ban you for no reason". I'm interested in the rational in allowing developers such a right. Later in our discussion, "Quigybobo> I rarly read the forum; Quigybobo> ask brain; Quigybobo> thats not an issue for me" If a moderator is ignorant to the situation, is it appropriate for him/her (him only for d1st0rts sake) to ban a user. Hazy rules and misunderstandings lead to shoddy decisions and angry everyone. "Quigybobo> I can ban you without reason; Quigybobo> want me to; Quigybobo> i just did; ipwn> and you're banning me for no reason as a mod?; Quigybobo> i'm not a mod"

 

"Quigybobo> your going on the list noob as the dumbest perosn in hs ipwn" rofl i'm fine with this one a lasting memorial to this incident

 

A couple slightly unrelated points I would like to make:

 

Staff should know the rules of the zone and have a uniform understanding.

 

ipwn> lol what about bak bot?

Masaru> You see bak bot anywhere?

ipwn> did he get banned?

Masaru> no, but he's not going to be running it as far as I know

 

Then later on

 

Masaru> I believe clearance for any type of botting is for bak- and a select few others

 

Not to pick on masaru specifically however, shouldn't moderator understand the rules and special exceptions prior to banning for something questionable.

 

 

Overall, this zone needs a redefinition of rules. In addition, the moderation staff and those with powers should be more carefully watched/trained. I have a complete log of the following events if you wish to see it I will be happy to oblige. Thank you for your time reading this and sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Edited July 2, 2007 by ipwn

[Dr Brain]

Is this a question about autocloaking or a rant about Quigybobo? Make up your mind.

 

Keystroke bots walk a fine line on legality. I decided that bak's bot was harmless, because decent AI would be pretty hard to add. Automatically cloaking, on the other hand, allows you the reflexes of a bot with a human's intelligence. So I'm making the decision that it shouldn't be legal.

[CRe]

Maybe all bots in the zone should be made illegal...

[ipwn]

This post is a combination of 3 things. A protest on got bounty?'s recent ban due to misunderstanding, a question upon the legality of autocloak which you just answered, and a friendly muckraking of developer moderating.

 

Thanks for your fast reply Brain! Now that we understand that autocloak is illegal we will not use it anymore.

[got bounty?]

um questions.

 

when i asked quigy about my ban, why was i ignored?

at least tell me why i was banned.

 

when i found out it was because of auto-cloak..im wondering, why was i picked out of many?

 

and why post a warning to everyone if youre going to ban someone anyways?

 

I'll let you all know this right now, 3rd party programs used in this zone earns you an instant 7 day ban or more. I will not tolerate auto cloaking programs or anything of the sort. -Quigybobo'

 

ermm..

 

after this statement was made, everyone using autocloak decided to stop.

 

please clarify why you still decided to ban me.

 

lastly..how can you decide to ban me for something i did before doc stated was illegal?

Edited July 2, 2007 by got bounty?

[Muskrat]

Umm, I'm pretty sure that I explained the exact same thing to you both: i.e. it was giving an unfair advantage. Also, I don't know how you missed that most other zones in subspace auto ban anyone using such programs. This is nothing new.

 

But, yeah, now you all know. Really, a more repenting response would have gotten you some reprieve.

[CRe]

Yes, In any other zone they would break out thier ban macs without warning.

[got bounty?]

Yes, In any other zone they would break out thier ban macs without warning.

 

but.. before this doc said key manipulation was alright..

anyone could have misinterpreted that.

 

 

and i'm still wondering..why i was chosen..about 10-15minutes after a public warning.

and just banned as a example after i had clearly stopped.

 

thats why, at the time of me being bant, i didnt know what i did wrong, which is why i asked quigybobo why i was bant, and yet i was ignored.

my friends on my chat had to later tell me, that i was randomly chosen as the glorious example.

Edited July 2, 2007 by got bounty?

[shot_237]

can you explain how great autocloak advantage is?

I think any1 can gain such reflex by remapping cloak key.

 

btw,

quigy actually said those in conversation.

i wish brain stop giving power to any person with aggresive at!@#$%^&*ude.

power actually give them right to throw their stress to player.

[Deathmonger]

The Bak bot does not give players an unfair advantage--it's a novelty. The autocloak definitely does give players an obvious advantage. There's no inconsistency. GG HS defense attorneys.

[JoWie]

use some sense and don't use it in the first place

[got bounty?]

btw,

quigy actually said those in conversation.

 

 

I wish brain stop giving power to any person with aggresive at!@#$%^&*ude.

power actually give them right to throw their stress to player.

 

isn't just a bit sketchy if a mod can ban you if you're flashing a bit too much.

you know if you set cloak as capslock and hold capslock the same effect is produced.

 

and i would like to know what advantage autocloak gives you.. deathmonger?

..the ability to cloak?

-even with bot reflexes-

 

what is xradar used for again?

 

[edit] i forgot quigy isn't a mod [edit]

Edited July 3, 2007 by got bounty?

[»D1st0rt]

Investigation pending

[shot_237]

The Bak bot does not give players an unfair advantage--it's a novelty. The autocloak definitely does give players an obvious advantage. There's no inconsistency. GG HS defense attorneys.

 

Bak bot can give owner extra playtime, can gain extra $ while owner is away.

Definitely bak bot does give an unfair advantage to owner.

[cloudyminded]

Actually, Bak bot couldn't really help you make money :/

 

Someone could just kill you easily..because the AI used isn't complex at all.

Its like..super dumb

 

On the other hand, autocloak..gives you an extra millisecond or whatever..

 

I guess theres an argument you could make for both sides..

 

*leaves it to the mods*

[Synook]

Well... I still don't see the "obvious" advantage of the auto-cloak... sure, you get to cloak a millisecond faster... but what is the point?

 

Also, the 'Bak' bot, I believe, does not technically give a gameplay advantage to the player as it is easier than a real player to kill, but it does give the player an advantageous position in the game, for as previously mentioned it allows Bak to gain money while not actually at the computer.

 

Can you imagine what would happen if everyone started using bots like it?

[Deathmonger]

Can you imagine what would happen if everyone started using bots like [bakbot]?

 

Then I'm sure it would be dealt with. If someone started trying to farm money with it, it would be easily recognized as abuse. The fact that no one has tried to do it suggests that Bakbot isn't usable for farming.

 

Well... I still don't see the "obvious" advantage of the auto-cloak... sure, you get to cloak a millisecond faster... but what is the point?

 

It's hard to target for ppl without xradar, because it jumps around, flashes, and you can't see the ship's orientation or even what kind of ship it is. That's why cheaters use it.

[got bounty?]

lmao..deathmonger.. autocloak, or any other program that uses key manipulation was not declared illegal until yesterday.

i think youre a bit bold to declare me a cheater.. but maybe thats just me

 

 

---------------------------

First off, I would like to thank everyone for taking their personal time to read this post, especially thank Ipwn’s concern and goodwill to write this. This argument proves to be a strong one, as rather then just claiming whether something was fair, or unfair, it uses a lot of evidence and strong evidence as that.

 

“I have all the logs if anyone wants to see them”-ipwn

 

As much as I would appreciate consideration of reprieving my ban, I doubt so much is possible.

 

As many of you know, Quigybobo is part of HS development team, which means he uses his personal time to make HS better. We take for granted that behind the scenes, without people like Quigybobo and Doc, HS can not run and improve upon mistakes.

 

If banning me makes up for the hours after hours of hard work he’s dedicated into the zone, then so be it.

 

The message I got from a lot of what Quigy said/did around the time of my ban is that Hsdev team can do anything.

 

Whether they want multiple alien techs, tacnuke on weasel or 10million dollar alien tech’s on their ships, they can have it due to the fact, we only enjoy the game because of what Hsdev has made of the zone.

 

Threats on banning for whims such as “being annoying” or having an annoying “private team name” certainly support this.

 

The sad reality is doc is one person and cannot do everything. Therefore, he cannot “axe” someone as important as quigy. Players such as me always come and go. But dev staff is hard to find.

 

Rather then ranting on a few threats, and impulsive actions quigy has taken, why not commend him for his mercy. He only decided to ban one, even though he could have bant almost one third of HS’s population and he banned me for the minimum amount of days, although he could have bant me anywhere from a week to a year.

 

I still do not know why I was chosen after I had clearly stopped for a long period after the warning Quigy posted in public chat, but I hope Quigy gets the most out of this ban.

 

Many could argue that I had a unfair advantage, and if no one was banned, pub would argue and rant on the mod’s for not doing their job. But from what doc previously stated, any program that does not modify the client in anyway is completely legal. Until yesterday, where that statement was proved incorrect, that was what doc said himself.

 

I would much rather Doc add new prototype guns and bombs etc. etc. and D1 to do whatever he does then investigate upon a topic that is obviously biased and favors my reprieve. If Quigy decides to keep his pride over popularity that is his personal issue. One week without Hyperspace isn’t too bad.

 

I am rather curious of Quigy’s personal response to his actions, otherwise don’t bother yourselves.

 

Every mod/ HS developer deserves at least 1 mistake, if not every week :]

[Dr Brain]

lmao..deathmonger.. autocloak, or any other program that uses key manipulation was not declared illegal until yesterday.

i think youre a bit bold to declare me a cheater.. but maybe thats just me

 

Actually, this isn't true. I said bak's bot was legal, not that all key manipulation programs are legal. Saying chatnut is legal doesn't mean that all chat clients are.

 

The message I got from a lot of what Quigy said/did around the time of my ban is that Hsdev team can do anything.

 

They have the access, but that doesn't mean they don't have accountability.

 

Whether they want multiple alien techs, tacnuke on weasel or 10million dollar alien tech’s on their ships, they can have it due to the fact, we only enjoy the game because of what Hsdev has made of the zone.

 

That's no different than moderators.

 

Threats on banning for whims such as “being annoying” or having an annoying “private team name” certainly support this.

 

Untrue.

 

The sad reality is doc is one person and cannot do everything. Therefore, he cannot “axe” someone as important as quigy. Players such as me always come and go. But dev staff is hard to find.

 

D1 handle's staff appointments, so yeah, I *can't* axe quigy.

[tcsoccer and neptune]

So quigy quit? I hope he didn't.

[got bounty?]

1.

 

"He didn't modify the client at all, so no, it's not cheating." Dr Brain Apr 29 2007, 08:35 AM

 

I didn't modify the client at all, so I would assume it was not cheating. I now know that I am completely wrong.

 

 

I could comment on the list of your statements but I don't think that would help HS benefit in any way at all.

 

Additionally I want to say,

 

I'm sorry for any inconvenience/ stress placed upon any player involved with this affair,

and I would like to apologize to Quigybobo, for taking his work for granted. :[

Edited July 4, 2007 by got bounty?

[»Ceiu]

I am by no means affirming or dissenting anyone's actions here, but I'm getting real sick of seeing a few things:

 

(1) No amount of work volunteered by someone has to be rewarded. !@#$%^&*, this is probably the first zone where doing work as a non-staffer even gets a reward. That said, I appreciate the work Quigy and others have done, but said work does not give them carte blanche to ban/abuse as they see fit. To reiterate: It's great that people are willing to do work that a vast majority can't/won't do, but they shouldn't expect e-glory for it.

 

(2) Trying to use any of the previous programs as a precedent is beyond stupid. Auto-cloak !@#$%^&*ists a player by giving them superhuman reaction speed -- something no other player can have without also using such a program. Whether or not it actually proves helpful in this specific case is irrelevant; it's a potential advantage not available to most of the population.

 

 

Personally, I find auto-cloak to be completely useless. With a good keyboard setup and a quick hand, you can get !@#$%^&* near the same effect and not look like a !@#$%^&*in beacon every time you use your guns. However, as it should already be clear, I am not the authority on the subject -- I'm merely stating my opinion.

[Muskrat]

!@#$%^&*uming that modifying the client is the only way to cheat is just bad logic. lol

 

I would interpret Brain's comment as an individual ruling, as well.

[shot_237]

!@#$%^&*uming that modifying the client is the only way to cheat is just bad logic. lol

 

I would interpret Brain's comment as an individual ruling, as well.

 

Most players did not interpret brain's comment that way.

If a rule can be interpreted multiple ways, confusion is !@#$%^&*ured.

Accept this fact and just make your rules *clear* to *everyone*.

[scarface.nl]

Stop breaking the rules. Brain is stubborn, he wont bend his rules for anyone, its been proven over time. He would rather shut this zone down than bend his rules. So everyone should just stop trying and start playing the game with the knowledge that if they don't follow his rules, they will be punished for it. End of story, stop making useless topics about this stuff.