Next round

[Dav]

Are we going to stop having these speed rounds soon? Current system: you start getting to a healthy rate of dev and then its game over. Also you need to be at your computer several times a day to get anywhere

[Animate Dreams]

nice observation

[Suicide_Run]

The system has been always like that dav, its just if you noticed it or not lol

[Dav]

If the turns generation was 1 per hour and the remainder very similar it could work over a longer period. People would be forced to have much much higher UPs, you would need to check the RPG once or twice per day making it a lot more popular (i think most are irritated at how much time this thing needs).

 

Also people not buying mercs till last minute would be gone. Over a longer round they would be left too far behind.

 

ALso make it so no turns are generated until attacks open to stop the attack burst at the start of the round.

[Aileron]

That's the third theory we have on the subject of people leaving.

 

It also was the precise reasoning that caused turn rate to go from 4 to 2 last round. However, I wouldn't consider 2 turns per hour to be a speed-round, and I can cite a few MMORPGs who use that rate.

 

The problem here though is that the ships are unbalanced. This is a predicted problem - I figured that when making 8 ships I was inevitably going to screw up one or two. This usually isn't a critical problem as people will simply choose the overpowered ship. However, the ship in question, the Terrier, has a 30% strike bonus and a 15% defense penalty. That means a lot more players than usual have an offensive spin, which causes constant attacks.

 

Next round the Terrier will be nerfed a lot, the Warbird nerfed slightly, and the Leviathon and Weasel improved. I will emphasis "slightly" at this point for the Warbird, as it is the only truly defensive ship and I infact want half of the players (everyone who preferrs defense over offense) using it, though I will also make the Weasel something viable for the defensively minded.

 

 

 

There are also a host of tactics that seem to be present with the goal of not playing for 3 weeks but making a quick run at the last day. There have been multiple proposals with regards to settings changes to solve this. However, I've come to the conclusion that regardless of what settings changes are implemented, players will find a strategy along those lines because the system in place rewards being in the top 3 at the last second rather than sustained performance.

 

Thus to problem is not in the settings themselves but rather how winners are determined. Simply put, next round the top 3 will be taken daily, and whoever is in the top 3 will earn tallies for that day. Whoever has the most tallies at the end of the month will be winner. Basically, a system will be in place that will reward people for being on top the whole time rather than at the last second, because this round the player who performed the best was clearly zappa.

 

 

Other miscellaneous settings changes: There will be a wider spread in weapons so that people don't max out their troops so easily, and spy weapons will be better because though it was intended to nerf sabotage, it wasn't quite intended to nerf sabotage this much, and recon should be possible.

 

 

 

As for those other two theories mentioned at the beginning of this post: Polix has a theory that people aren't playing because it is complicated. I agree...there have been things added that complicate the process particularly at the start and end of the rounds, most of which can and will be removed if the tally system (admittingly something also complicated, but only my end, not to the player's) is put in place.

 

 

My theory on the subject is that most players are going to leave a couple months after trying it anyway, and the way to offset that is to recruit faster than the rate at which players leave. Generally the best way to do this is to have players recruit allies. The clicker/recruiter feature, as annoying and unfair as it is, will likely be added next round, as it was exclusively designed for the purpose.

 

However, studying the course of how this game developed, first there were the Forum Killers, then the SSCentralGods. After that came the MG Infidels who recruited under the basis of taking down the elitist SSCentralGods. Then there were the MG Terrorists who recruited under the basis of shutting up the annoying recruiters of the MG Infidels. Then Penis was created to take down the cheating MG Terrorists. Then Vagina was formed to take out the arrogant overpopulated Penis clan.

 

The pattern is that the wide scale movements of this game were based upon one clan recruiting allies in attempts to take down another clan which has somehow made them angry. This round, the kind considerate humble fair-playing Vagina clan has not angered anyone...jerks!!! As such there isn't any massive recruiting going on.

 

I need a method to sow some sort of clan rivalry. I have one idea, but it seems to be far to ambitious to implement within 5 days. My other idea is to do a clan reset. The live clans will simply re-register (hopefully under a different name because I am frankly tired of clans named after reproductive organs.) However, dead clans will collapse and maybe their members will be absorbed into the large clans. Generally though 2 or 3 large clans will be ideal while a dozen or so tiny clans defeats the purpose.

 

I frankly don't have any great ideas on this particular subject, and any intelligent and constructive ideas on how to encourage more clan vs. clan activity would be welcome.

[Dav]

Taking daily tallies doesn't sound good to me. A fair number of players like to concentrate on one or two core skills for their ship before developing everything else which means to win you need to be weaker all round rather then strong in your specialty. This will also mean you still need to visit as often as possible to win which i'm growing very tired of and probably wont play next round unless i can get away with 1 or two visits a day.

 

Secondly a longer round would hit the last minute players. As it stands the people playing properly arn't getting significantly ahead enough to leave these people behind. Reason is we spend two weeks getting started, once week actually getting somewhere and one conserving resources for the last day.

 

If this active phase is made longer those with little or nothing wont be able to afford the UP upgrades / weapons to keep up.

[Aileron]

Well, I promised that if this round completed without a major hitch that the proposal to increase round length would be considered, and the round went through without a major hitch.

 

If I also recall correctly it means Animate Dreams owes me $20.

[JDS]

... so that means this round is going to be extended?..

[Falcoknight]

As long as I'm in third you know the round is going smoothly.

[Aileron]

Well, it means I'll put it to a vote.

 

Ani...shutup. Frankly, the only reason there even are people with negative money is because you told them to do it. And no I don't count it as a major hitch...the people who are "in debt" by game standards aren't advancing. BTW....BALEETED!!!

[Suicide_Run]

The poll doesnt explain it all cause you cant vote. Enough is said there. (Its obvious you cant vote in a closed topic/poll) =/

 

Even if this round went off with-out a hitch, the overall population playing the game will just decrease continuously. Theres about 20 ppl that looks like they are playing in the June round. I doubt the next round will even have that much.

 

This game was never meant to thrive in this forum since:

1) Lack of overall members in this forums

2) The obsessiveness of ppl trying to get 1st place for a html spin-off game in a forum

3) The amount of time required for this game to make any progress due to point #2

 

My opinion is, just give up trying to fix this game.

 

Bank system does pretty much nothing since you can just buy convert weapons and sell them when you need them.

 

Attack turns has been lowered to almost nothing cause of lack of players which causes people to keep hitting a few targets. That then leads to the decrease of attacks you can have on other players cause people complain.

 

UP amount and Armoy prices just gets thrown around since the low armor prices causes the need to increase the UP amount for more soldiers which causes excess money and that leads to the need for merc. The mercs then ends up screwing up the game cause people buy them last minute, which leads to changing mercs to produce negative money. That causes ppl to screw around and have negative money.

[RedWaller]

ThIs GaMe Is JuSt ToO bOrInG fOr Me I cOuLd NeVeR rEaLlY gEt InTo It. ThErE iSn'T eNoUgH pLaYeRs ImO.

[Aileron]

This is the reason I am deleting your posts Ani. Read rule 5, or better yet read the post script. I for one like open debate but you are not debating. Debate implies some amount of intellectual reasoning is done. You are whining. You have a conclusion you wish to push, and you are making stuff up in order to push that conclusion. Secondly you've become a cancer to everyone who's actually trying to build something here.

 

The only way to get a negative income is through self sabotage. The only way to be attacking someone with negative cash out is self-sabotage or very odd accident. All this negative income thing demonstrates is that there are a couple of people who are really trying to lose, most likely because *you* told them to seek out the inherent flaws you think are present. The people who are trying to win are actually doing quite well.

 

This is the part where I'd normally say stop whining and start being constructive, but frankly I'm tired of this and will settle for a STFU!

 

 

SR, you are partially correct. However:

 

1) It is not my intention to exclude this game to this forum's player base.

2 & 3) That's what clan vs. clan is for.

 

I probably should have put this in bold last time, because this is important:

 

I'm trying to find a way to promote clan vs. clan conflict. If the clans are recruiting, they go to the zones and recruit and train players.

 

We need to change the way winners are determined. The current system promotes single play and last minute play. The new system will rank clans on a basis of performance the whole round.

 

Secondly, a clan reset needs to be done to remove all the garbage clans from two or three months ago.

 

Third the clicker will be put in, because that's what its there for.

 

However, if anyone who I haven't already told to stfu has any suggestions as how to promote clan vs. clan activity, please make them.

[Animate Dreams]

This is the part where I'd normally say stop whining and start being constructive, but frankly I'm tired of this and will settle for a STFU!

 

However, if anyone who I haven't already told to stfu has any suggestions as how to promote clan vs. clan activity, please make them.

 

See? You never wanted any constructive criticism from me, because in the end it always meant that you were wrong about something. That's why you've ignored me since the beginning. And not just me, you've yet to listen to ANYONE's suggestions. You always have some reason why you're right, even when someone is busy proving their own point inside the game(i.e. me, as one example, though there were certainly others).

 

And you want to talk about "people who are trying to build something here"? The only one who's been ABLE to build anything here is you. Despite all our suggestions, yours are the ones that get tested, and so far, they've ALL been shot down. In the end you have to settle and follow the suggestions we gave you a month previous. I think we were all interested in making SS RPG a better game. Remember when this forum was ripe with suggestions? Why do you think that was? And why do you think they stopped? Suggestions haven't stopped because the players have left, instead, the suggestions have stopped for the SAME REASON the players have left. And that reason is you.

 

Polix ran this so much better than you. Now, no offense to Polix, but I don't think he was really suited to run SS RPG. He did well because he was able to think things through and for the most part avoid implementing ideas that would break the game, but he wasn't really creative enough to come up with new ways to make the game interesting. That's the reason I've never tried to make any strategy games of my own - I lack the creativity as well. Polix, however, listened to the players, and was therefore able to draw from their creativity. So even though he wasn't perfectly suited to run the game, he was able to do it very well anyway. You haven't managed to do any of those things, and player input and interest have both disappeared as a result.

 

You complain that my arguments aren't intelligent enough. I imagine my arguments just go over your head, but in case you're serious, I'll step it up a notch and explain it to you: Polix established an environment that facilitated involvement in multiple facets of SSForum. He also created an atmosphere that managed to promote both friendly compe!@#$%^&*ion and discussion that includes, but is not limited to, casual socialization, dissertations of advanced and progressive play strategy, and deliberation of development theory. Such topics were not only encouraged but also given thorough yet scrupulous consideration. However, said mediums have been quashed, and participation in all facets has deteriorated. Modifications are made retroactively, and pre-emptive corrective measures have been abolished.

 

Furthermore, your tenuous arguments and explications, though unfounded and discredited, are treated as canon material, while fundamentals are disparaged.

 

I am compelled to requisition for your immediate removal from a position of authority. Acquiescence on your part would be the most prudent option available.

 

I'll leave you with a translation: polix > u, gtfo pl0x

[JDS]

LOL WTF I CANT UNDERSTAND U

[Aileron]

I've implemented a lot of suggestions. There are also a lot of suggestions which were partially implemented.

 

attraction made the suggestion that the Nightwasp should be available sooner.

The current mercenary system was generated based upon a suggestion that mercs either be made more expensive or more plentiful.

There was also a suggestion to limit the damage from sabotage. I did that.

One of the ones you made yourself if I recall was to remove transfer services. That was done.

There was a suggestion to remove the bank. Granted I didn't do it fully, but I did remove the interest.

At the start of this round turn rate was set to 1. After a couple of suggestions, it was re-set to 2.

 

I can take constructive criticism, but you haven't been making constructive criticism, you engage in name-calling. You've called me a stupid corrupt moron, made claims that I don't understand this game, accused me of favoratism, suggested that I commit suicide, and then sit and wonder why I might be ignoring your "constructive" suggestions. Please, before you claim to have done constructive criticism again, take out your copy of Webster's or whatever dictionary you use and look up the definition of the term. You'll find that it among other things it involves being respectfull and avoiding personal insults.

 

And I can't think of a more shining example of being counter-productive than your efforts to decruit players at the beginning of June.

[Smarties]

imo the round is over quickly, i spend 800 million getting from 170 to 200 UP, which has massive reprecussions coming to the final days, so its just a matter of who is online more often to bank and attack people when they are sleeping,i make 16 million a turn, but whats that good for if theres only 3 days left in the round? i just think i made a big mistake but if the round were longer, it would be more interesting in my opinion, also the bank system isnt fun, people banking then spending last second is useless, i think you should add the fee's next round, have some daily cutbacks for losers who just bank till the final 30 seconds, or have bank accounts with interest but you have to purchase a new account, like 100 mil for .05% interest:P etc.

[Aileron]

I could put in either negative interest or a withdrawal fee. A small negative interest would effectively deal with the stockpilers.

 

However, the stockpilers will simply think of something else. The experiments of the famous behavioralist Dr. Skinner showed that if you have a periodic reward system, that pigeons will perform well at just after and just before the reward, but not perform as well in the intervals between. Obviously the fault in his research is that pigeons make a poor human analog.

 

The point is however, that as long as the reward system rewards being on the top 3 at the last second, that is what people will aim for.

 

My solution to the problem is to change the system by which winners are chosen. Take ranks daily, and top ranked players get tallies daily, bonus tallies for being 1st in a catagory. By "players" I mean "clans", because clan vs. clan appeals to everyone while player vs. player only appeals to the four or five players who actually have enough time to go for the top. That way month long performance will be what is rewarded.

 

That way, those wish to bank for the last second can do so, but if they did so at the expense of leaving their rivals an uncontested position on the top for 2 weeks, they would lose. Still, the bank will carry a penalty, as you are right, we don't want players using it that much.

 

 

A longer round would make UP more viable, as it tends to be a long term upgrade. The only problem I have is that it new players tend to only start at the beginning for the round, or when a special ship is introduced. The Nightwasp system would have to be improved upon. Probably a new ship every two weeks. attraction is probably is not going to be happy if the 2 month supporters win the vote.

[The Real Picard]

This is the part where I'd normally say stop whining and start being constructive, but frankly I'm tired of this and will settle for a STFU!

 

However, if anyone who I haven't already told to stfu has any suggestions as how to promote clan vs. clan activity, please make them.

 

 

I am compelled to requisition for your immediate removal from a position of authority. Acquiescence on your part would be the most prudent option available.

 

 

Based on the above, I am compelled to requistion for the immediate removal from any position of authority Animate Dreams, oh, wait a minute, he's just a member! Nevermind.

 

IMHO the game should run for two months straight.

[Dav]

A negative interest would harm people saving for a big investment like high UP upgrades. Would also harm those with a reserve tank of cash to recover from an onslaught of attacks and sabbing.

 

The rounds need to be designed so stockpiler's are left behind to the point where they will come nowhere.

[Aileron]

There are two faults with the bank. The first is that it is a tool for stockpiling. The way to fix that is stop rewarding that behavior. The second problem is that it is untouchable. As such it probably should have a penalty attached to it.

 

Negative interest is the best way to do it. Its penalty increases as a player puts more money into the bank and as the player holds it in there longer. If the negainterest is .05%, and if the player is saving up for a 200mil UP upgrade will only be charged at most 1 mil per hour.

[RedWaller]

Couldn't you limit the deposits?

[Smarties]

limiting withdrawls would make people have to start m!@#$%^&* buying at the final 10 minutes not last 10 seconds

[Aileron]

There actually are a lot of options: Penalties can be applied both upon withdrawal and upon deposit in the form of either a flat rate or a percentage. Additionally there is an option to put in negative interest.

 

There really is no real difference between withdrawal and deposit percentage fees if there is no interest, as bank money has to go through both before it can be spent again. (If there is interest, there's a difference) However, sometimes people have to deposit quickly before they are attacked.

 

Also flat withdrawal fees are stupid. They penalise small withdrawals and mean next to nothing to stockpilers.

 

So the only good choices are first off whether or not we do infact wich to penalise the bank, whether or not that penalty is in the form of a flat deposit fee, a percentage withdrawal fee, or negative interest. In terms of which one of those hurt the long term stockpiler the worst, negative interest does.

[Dav]

negative interest will hurt anyone without a def so large no one can hit them, fees may also to a lesser extent but are more favorable