NBVegita Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 Now I ask you, what is the probability that your religion, not even a fairly old religion, is the correct religion? What is the probability that religions that were around hundreds or thousands of years before yours are incorrect? Whats the probability that they're correct?
SeVeR Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 (edited) AGAIN EVERY1 YOU ARE ALL PUTTING SCIENCE AS AN EXPLANATION. AND AGAIN ILL ASK YOU WHERE DID THE UNIVERSE COME FROM? A BLACK HOLE? NO! IF SO WHERE DID THE BLACK HOLE COME? THE WORLD IS JUST TOO COMPLEX TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NOT A MAKER! DO YOU KNOW THE PROBABILITY OF THE PROPHECYS COMING TRUE? IMAGINE TEXAS COVERED IN MARBLES THREE FEET DEEP. NOW THERE IS 1(ONLY 1)MARBLE THAT YOU NEED TO FIND. YOU GET 1 PICK AND THAT IS IT. NOW THE 1 MARBLE IS 1 PROPHECY. THE ODDS ARE ENORMOUS. AGAIN EVERY1 YOU ARE ALL PUTTING RELIGION AS AN EXPLANATION. AND AGAIN ILL ASK YOU WHERE DID THE UNIVERSE COME FROM? GOD? NO! IF SO WHERE DID GOD COME? THE WORLD HAS IT'S UNKNOWNS, AND THOSE UNKNOWNS ARE NOT AN EXCUSE TO CREATE A GOD FIGURE TO EXPLAIN THEM AWAY! DO YOU KNOW THE PROBABILITY OF THE PROPHECYS COMING TRUE WHEN THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PROPHECIES THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO COME TRUE AND WHICH CAN BE INTERPRETED IN THOUSANDS OF DIFFERENT WAYS? That's better. Just to be clear, the cause of the universe is unknown. No scientist will tell you the universe was caused by a black-hole. Edited June 18, 2007 by SeVeR
Guest Knightflame Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 NOAH'S ARK OK how about Noah's Ark,planned by GOD thousands of years ago and scientists say that it is a boat almost impossible to capsize and that it was a plan that was cosidered state of the art not more than 60 years ago. I don't think all these state of the art plans came out of luck with moses and a crayon.
SeVeR Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 (edited) Yes, i'm reading it, and making it very clear where your !@#$%^&*umptions are being stated as facts. -EDIT- On the Noah thing. It's a little hard to understand what you're saying. Are you saying Noah built an ark which was too technologically advanced for this time? The following is an analysis of the boat-shaped object found at the Duprinar site: 1. The metal traces that were interpreted as iron brackets were actually goethite, a hydrated iron oxide. This mineral was thoroughly mixed with clay, calcite, quartz, and anthophyllite particles, and it showed a large amount of chemical variability across the sample. Neither of these properties would occur in smelted iron. The purported walls of the ark are limonite concentrations. Their boatlike shape is consistent with an eroded doubly plunging syncline. The stresses of such folding commonly cause fractures that cut across the layers. Water moving through these fractures would have produced the limonite concentrations that were interpreted as dividing walls. In short, the structure is consistent with the following geological history: Rocks formed when sediments eroded from nearby volcanic rocks and were compacted. These layers were folded into a doubly plunging syncline. A marine sea eroded a channel into the rocks and deposited fossiliferous limestone in it. The land was uplifted, and erosion removed most of the limestone and exposed the fold. A landslide carried blocks of rock and mud around the synclinal structure. This interpretation is consistent with the structure itself and with the surrounding geology (Collins and Fasold 1996). 2. No fossilized wood or traces of wood, reed, or elemental carbon were found !@#$%^&*ociated with the structure (Collins and Fasold 1996). 3. The Durupinar site is incompatible with the biblical account. Genesis 8:4-6 says the flood waters receded for two and a half months after the ark landed before other mountaintops became visible. The Durupinar site is almost 10,000 feet lower than the summit of nearby Agri Dagh. Agri Dagh would have been visible above water even before the ark landed (Standish and Standish 1999, 236). 4. The Bible describes a rectangular ark. Wyatt's ark is boat-shaped and about 50 percent wider than the dimensions given in the Bible (Standish and Standish 1999, 106, 230-231). Links:Collins, L. G. and D. F. Fasold, 1996. Bogus "Noah's Ark" from Turkey exposed as a common geologic structure. Journal of Geoscience Education 44(4): 439-444. http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html Source: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH503.html Edited June 18, 2007 by SeVeR
NBVegita Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 You also have your pyramids in egypt, still an architectual marvel by todays standards.
Guest Knightflame Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 A boat is by far more complex than a triangle with thousands of slaves. Also egyptians came into view thousands of years after Jesus and therefore should have more knowledge. Come on somebody respond I know that you are ther SEVER. and NG something rather.
Guest Knightflame Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 I gotta go I'll talk to you guys tomorrow about this topic. Have fun debating my last question!
SeVeR Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 (edited) I've researched the question and found the !@#$%^&*ing evidence i expected to find. I've amended my previous post with it. In fact this link: http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html describes the supposed ark find far better than what i've pasted in above. There is evidence to suggest a flood, and given that, there is reason to suggest people may have built boats to escape it. However there is no evidence of a boat being built with technological ingenuity beyond that of the time. Thus, no evidence for God. Edited June 18, 2007 by SeVeR
Drake7707 Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 Everything written in the bible cannot be proved, i think a lot of studies tried for themselves, all of them failed, else there would have been papers published with the evidence. Conclusion: the bible is useless as a reference, it's as good as a harry potter book or any other story. And yes, egyptians did some extraordinary things building those piramids on such short notice. Either they had some kind of technique for it, or the dates found are wrong. But the fact that 'god' helped them is wrong, because farao's considered them gods themselves. Btw, you might be interested in: http://www.bibleandscience.com/counseling/godpartbrain.htm
rootbear75 Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 (edited) AGAIN EVERY1 YOU ARE ALL PUTTING SCIENCE AS AN EXPLANATION. AND AGAIN ILL ASK YOU WHERE DID THE UNIVERSE COME FROM? A BLACK HOLE? NO! IF SO WHERE DID THE BLACK HOLE COME? THE WORLD IS JUST TOO COMPLEX TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NOT A MAKER! DO YOU KNOW THE PROBABILITY OF THE PROPHECYS COMING TRUE? IMAGINE TEXAS COVERED IN MARBLES THREE FEET DEEP. NOW THERE IS 1(ONLY 1)MARBLE THAT YOU NEED TO FIND. YOU GET 1 PICK AND THAT IS IT. NOW THE 1 MARBLE IS 1 PROPHECY. THE ODDS ARE ENORMOUS.THE UNIVERSE CAME FROM THE BIG BANG, THIS IS A WIDELY ACCEPTED EXPLANATION.SO STFU AND KEEP YOUR BULL!@#$%^&* TO YOURSELF! Edited June 18, 2007 by rootbear75
Aileron Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 I have recieved a complaint about vulgarity. I don't see any now. If vulger posts were made and subsequently deleted, don't make more. Drake, don't disprove claims that were not made. That's part of what's known as a straw-man arguementative fallicy, where one creates a strereotypical likeness of your opponant in your mind and argue against it. It is extremely rude. No one claimed the pyramids were divinely planned. And a lot of studies that went towards proving the bible were partially successfull. But usually its a group of people who go out to disprove the Bible and turn up with nothing. Truth be told however, the latest of these event occured 2000 years ago. I mean, 200 years ago the United States was a second world nation only recently independent from Great Britain. If you could talk to an English-speaking person from 500 years ago, you would barely understand each other due to how much the language has change. If he were from 750 years ago, you flat out couldn't. 1000 years ago would pre-date any European nation that currently exists today. Now, keep in mind a mere 20 years ago people used floppy B-drive disks. Imagine how much information on those disks has already been lost. The very fact that the Bible survived all this time implies that the center of it must have been important just to survive all this time. By the same token, I'd be carefull quoting the frills of it. Actually, the places where flooding occured didn't really use boats. Sure the Sumerians probably had rafts, but nothing that you could really ride out a flood on. Essentially it would take divine invervention for one of them to survive that flooding via boat in ancient Sumeria, because no mortal knew how to build a ship at that time and place. Besides, Christians don't have to take the old testiment literally. I'd say the pyramids are overrated. They required as many man-hours as proportional for any other structure in their time, and constructed it in fewer hours by having more men than usual. That is unless you believe the theory with which they might have used kites, for which I'd argue against with the lack of development upon that technology. If they did it for the pyramids, they would have continued to use the technique with other projects and would probably still be doing it today. We do indeed have nothing like it in modern times, because modern nations (except some communistic ones) don't blow half of their national budget towards construction of a monument to the current leader. If I had to pick an ancient wonder that I would like to see (if I had a time machine), it would be the Hanging Gardens of Babylon. That was a engineering marvel.
rootbear75 Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 you mean these?http://www.atlastours.net/iraq/hanging_gardens_ruins.jpg supposedly, it looked like this:http://hydroponicstore.com/images/hanging-gardenslrg.jpg
NBVegita Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 (edited) Its the architecture of the pyramids that are so amazing, not just the time it took them to be made. Some of the architectual marvels that occured in building the pyramids should not have been possible by those types of civilizations, some of those marvels are even impressive in our day and age, specially concerning the materials they had to work with. My point on those are that if Egyptians can build massive things with incredibly intricate technology, far beyond their supposed means, who said that someone couldn't have done the same with a boat? Also these pyramids were built thousands of years BEFORE christ was born. As for the truancies in the bible, they have been able to prove that some of the people in the bible existed, the places existed, and even that some of these people were at those places at around the correct time listed in the bible. That is all that can be proven about the bible. So in essence the bible could be interperated as a colorful version of religious history, where the people and places may be correct, but the actions are exaggerated to make for better reading. That of course can be neither proved, nor disproved. Edited June 18, 2007 by NBVegita
Gravitron Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 I am also sorry Gravitron for calling you names that hurt your feelings. I never knew how sensitive you were.lulz wut?who dis guy?did i miss something? Heres the deal. Anyone who's a believer in Christ can see our world is heading straight for !@#$%^&*. I know you guys don't want to end up in !@#$%^&* so I am want to help you in your walk with god. As an example what happened in Gaza is a big sign that our maker is coming.I already gotz me a savy-or: http://www.g0tr00t.co.uk/RaptorJesus/RaptorJesus04.jpg
Falcoknight Posted June 18, 2007 Report Posted June 18, 2007 A boat is by far more complex than a triangle with thousands of slaves. Also egyptians came into view thousands of years after Jesus and therefore should have more knowledge. Come on somebody respond I know that you are ther SEVER. and NG something rather. Are you stupid? Seriously?The Egyptians came into view AFTER Jesus?Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus died ~2,000 years ago.The Great Pyramid of Giza was built over 4,000 years ago. Aileron, shut him up. He's a horrible representative of Christianity, and isn't helping your argument in the least =/
Guest Knightflame Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Come on Jesus is omni present the omega always was always wil beHe was apart of the trinity before the earth was made.Oh yeah where did the big ban come from?Yes the seven wonders of the world(very impressive)i agree [qoute]Are you stupid? Seriously?The Egyptians came into view AFTER Jesus?Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus died ~2,000 years ago.The Great Pyramid of Giza was built over 4,000 years ago. Aileron, shut him up. He's a horrible representative of Christianity, and isn't helping your argument in the least =/
SeVeR Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 I'd have to pick the Colussus of Rhodes or the Lighthouse of Alexandria (and the Alexandrian Library of course).
Samapico Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Oh yeah where did the big ban come from?Some abusive netOp I'd guessAnd learn to quote If you click on the nice 'Reply' icon, you won't have to bother to type the tags manually...
rootbear75 Posted June 20, 2007 Report Posted June 20, 2007 Oh yeah where did the big ban come from?Some abusive netOp I'd guessAnd learn to quote If you click on the nice 'Reply' icon, you won't have to bother to type the tags manually...BURN!
Falcoknight Posted June 21, 2007 Report Posted June 21, 2007 A question I feel that is important... How old are you, Knightflame?
Greased_Lightning Posted June 22, 2007 Report Posted June 22, 2007 Wow I didn't read this one last night because it took awhile to read some other stuff. Everyone please don't take Knightflame to be anything of a representative of Christians. Most of us don't go around shouting fire and brimstone on those who disagree with the MINOR points of faith that have been brought out. The Bible shouldn't be taken literally word for word. If that's the case, we should all be cannibals and holy people should expect to live 400 years. Knightflame, you aren't helping anything by continuing this here. All you've really done is to give Christianity and belief in God in general a bad name. If you want to continue trying to convert others and preach the word, may I suggest that you consider the seminary or being a missionary? Whoever said it here said it well that the best way to be an amb!@#$%^&*ador of Christianity is to just be a good person and don't go tooting your own horn or losing your cool with others who disagree. There will always be people who disagree with others' beliefs, but it is in no way acceptable to chew them out and say 'ZOMG SATAN 4 YER BALLZ!!!' That's not exactly very Christian now is it? Anywho, that's enough religious debate for me for a good long while. The AMA is thinking about labelling video game addiction (addiction, that's funny by itself) a mental health disease (disorder?). Now that's just messed up.
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