What is YOUR opinion on HS' Balance?

[Sharpflame]

1st, dont treat this as a whine/complain/etc topic. This is for the better! Jump into someone else's shoes, and try to understand just a little. Everything I'm going to say here is not a complaint, rather a suggestion. We need balance in hyperspace.

Please treat this, not as RANT RANT RANT, but as, Pwz mr hs would you be balanced for us?

 

 

Everything here is going to include a suggestion for whatever I think is wrong, because productivity is what people want...

 

 

Also, everything here is IMO. So don't completely disagree and believe you're right and I'm wrong, because it's IMO.

 

 

Problem #1: Terriers - Overpowered

 

Ya... everyone's said some comment about terriers. Usually it's:

 

Player1> STUPID TERRS OMG

Player2> Terrs are so lame

Player3> Terrs should be nerfed

Player4> wtf terr pwns

Player1> NOOB TERRS GRAHH

Player2> I dont even know why I play here - its so unbalanced

Player2 left arena

 

 

Hm, I'm going to go look at my screen.

 

I saw 4/15 (Playing) being terrier. I was surprised, because it's usually worse than that.

 

Well, if there's a ship being overused, it's overpowered, is that not true?

Terrier has some really good abilities, but not good for everything when it comes to balance. They have a good amount of max energy, and they're fast and hard to catch unless you have your ship maxed.

 

Well, the old terrier SUCKED. This one is overpowered. We didn't like suck, we don't like overpowered (unless we have one -.-), so MAYBE a good way to get this ship balanced is to look at its overpowered stats.

 

It's got a lot of energy, and it's got a lot of speed and thrust. If we decrease them all, everyone's going to be mad. I'd say, decrease energy just a tad, say, just 500 nrg loss. That gives it a MAX of 2000 energy. That's a LOT (lancs have 3000). If we lower that, then to keep some balance, we can increase some other random stat that's underpowered, like bombspeed on terrier. When levi's energy was lowered, I didnt see an unbearable amount of SPAM about it. Lowering terrier's energy, and raising it's underpowered bomb speed could give us what we want so dearly: balance.

 

 

If you read that far, thanks! Here's 2nd problem: Underpowered WEASEL.

 

Okay, looking at my screen this time:

 

I saw 0/16 playing using a weasel. Uh oh, underpowered it is!

 

The old weasel might've been overpowered, I've seen some topics giving suggestions for this new underpowered weasel. We want balance, right? Raise a underpowered stat, lower an overpowered one. The weasel's bad underpowered stat is the lack of speed and rotation. The overpowered stat is... umm... uhh... I cannot think of one ... besides the bouncing bombs, which don't do much good when you're very slow and cannot catch up. The old weasel's gun speed was cool, so maybe we should get a gun speed that is faster than the terrier's 3300, but slower than the spider's 4000. 3500, perhaps? Also, maybe a wider multifire spread, or thinner, that depends on how the faster bullets go.

 

If you think anything is underpowered/overpowered, just post it here.

 

You may now complain about my post or praise it... etc, just remember:

 

Balance is the key to success!

 

 

Yes, of course, I understand 100% that this is a growing zone So don't inform me...

[Afroman]

I agree 100% with Shrap on the terrier and weasel.

 

Another way to balance the terrier would be to do something about the speed. I myself can catch most warbids with my large terrier, I didn't think this was suppose to be so easy. Enough about that, onto the next ship.

 

Shark: Small pretty fast and dominate in base. It has bigger bursts and is hard to hit, can get more energy then then warbird and jav(I think). energy could drop a little. I think bursts don't need to be changed either. The big problem in my eyes is Salvo, thats right Salvo. With Salvo you can release all your items really quick and it makes it pretty crazy, to be honest I wish this bomb was removed, because any ship with it can just spam items like crazy, use their energy infusion without hardly any delay and just rep and burst through everything. Even if it was removed from just the shark, levi and javs could be just as good for rushing. In my opinion Salvo should be removed, or have some penalty for basing, like if you have salvo, you take more damage from burst bullets or something.

 

Whatever, thats my opinion/ideas on everything, have a nice day.

[Evil Doom]

I agree the terr is overpowered... but i dont think the weasel is underpowered... im glad the weasel is slow... the weasel was meant to be used for basing... and that is what i use it for... but i would like to see weasel get it's gunspeed back the way it was before... but besides that keep everything else the way it is.

[Sharpflame]

Old weasel gunspeed + Beam array + Zig Zag area in base 3 = win

[Afroman]

I just remembered about my salvo idea having you take more burst damage..I forgot about Radiating coils giving only 100 burst damage..so that would just cancle it out. There has to be be some kind of basing penalty for salvo though, its just too good for item spamming.

[Suicide_Run]

Make it so Terr cant buy extra speed. The most of the problem is solved cause I find the problem is that all the terrs zoom p!@#$%^&* with shredders. Without speed, it would be like the old terr but not as big I think. If you decrease it's nrg, they can still lame with it and wat not but they just gotta be more careful.

 

Weasels aint meant to be a center ship. The only change I think would be good is increase it's bullet speed by a tad.

 

The main problem I have with sharks is not that they can release their items pretty fast. Its that since they are small, the chances of them getting hit is decreased. Plus, they seem to be natural eaters which lowers their chances of getting hit even more.

[Sharpflame]

I just remembered about my salvo idea having you take more burst damage..I forgot about Radiating coils giving only 100 burst damage..so that would just cancle it out. There has to be be some kind of basing penalty for salvo though, its just too good for item spamming.

 

The penalty is that your bomb sucks... bad. It's a l1 bomb that eats a lot of energy.

 

 

 

Something else I noticed was that repels are HUGE, in bases people just go up to a wall about 10 tiles away, and rep to destroy a bombline. Maybe 5 tile sized reps would be better.

[Afroman]

The thing im trying to say is salvo shouln't be implemented just for the use of fast deployment of items, if we couldn't deploy our items as fast it would really help alot, and with all the items you can get, you shouldn't be able to. You have hardly any delay so you can just burst rep burst energy infusion burst rep ect. Try rushing without salvo, use HE or falcon and you will see there is a diffrence.

[zephoid]

my sugestion:

 

Terrier:

remove shredder, its too powerful to be on a ship this fast with this much energy.

lower recharge rate a little so other ships can actuly kill it once in a while

 

Weasel:

Lower the emp time, its not necessary to emp some1 for 6 secs

add double barrels, this is offset by the modification above

add a bit more total energy because it currently dosnt have that much.

(id like to get plasma on weasels, but that might be too good)

 

shark:

dont allow sharks to get radiating coils, there way to good for rushing in bases because they dont get hit with bursts very often.

 

 

 

i think wb are fine, there ez to kill, and there only defense is speed.

 

Javs are like wbs, cept with bombs instead of guns. ez to kill

 

Spiders are fine, there too slow to combat much in center and only useful in bases, if anything, go more rotation.

 

Levis are fine, they get piled on by everyone already but can often take out turrets and larger ships

 

lancs have got nerfed enuf. there only use in center is mining and turreting and both are hard to do

 

 

 

on other changes. TAKE OUT DAMAGE. its VERY annoying and i think almost useless. i keep loosing multi when im using fletchette and so i cant do crap.

 

find a way to nerf the safe-laming with levis, its not a balance ship prob, its a safe zone manipulation.

 

and stop the id weps!!! i h8 getn my turrets killed by sharp only solution is to use antimatter mines, he seems to like hitting them.

 

And can u find a way to code in a new rep that worked like the old ones, where it atracted the shots instead o pushing away that was sooo much fun with those and mines

[Dr Brain]

Some of the original terrier ideas are worth considering.

 

Weasel has been mostly untouched, because I'm not quite sure what to do with it. I've had the goal of making it into a basing support ship (possibly with a limited form of summoner), but I'm not quite sure how to achieve that. Balancing it before then is only a waste of effort.

 

I don't really see the problem with salvo. Maybe (maybe meaning I haven't witnessed it) on shark it's an issue with the bursts, but I rarely see it used on other ships.

 

on other changes. TAKE OUT DAMAGE. its VERY annoying and i think almost useless. i keep loosing multi when im using fletchette and so i cant do crap.

 

When was the last time you saw damage? It's been gone for a while. I was only fiddling with it, and didn't remove it properly when I was done.

 

find a way to nerf the safe-laming with levis, its not a balance ship prob, its a safe zone manipulation.

 

They can't maintain bounty by doing that.

 

And can u find a way to code in a new rep that worked like the old ones, where it atracted the shots instead o pushing away that was sooo much fun with those and mines

 

Can't be done, as I've said at least twice in the past few weeks.

[Afroman]

It is an issue on sharks, the bursts are big and they can deploy them very quickly, it should be removed from shark.

[Masaru]

Decrease the amount of burst for sharks. (They're like lanc bursts, far too many for a tiny ship like that, instead burst speed could be increased to compensate)

 

Give the weasel a purpose. (I don't think being an emp spammer will be attractive to any player, unless emp damage is slightly increased or something)

 

Slow the terr down. (Far too fast speed and thrust wise. It shouldn't be able to outrun warbirds...)

 

Slightly lower the radius of repels. (A slight decrease would give a much more solid, closed feeling to a repel than a large force that pushes everything at like the thor prox range. Increased repel thrust could be interesting as well.)

[DaRuler]

The terr with no extra speed/thrust will not keep up with a warbird. I have one extra speed on mine and I can barely keep up. Plus the only ship that can keep up with them slightly is jav. So, being able to be ALMOST as fast as warbird isn't bad I don't think.

 

In my opinion, HS Balance is disappointing. I don't understand why everyone complains so much. To me it is only making them happy, and making people like me frustrated. But it's obviously happening so I won't rant.

 

I do think there needs to be a realization that ships like the lanc and weasel are meant for BASE. And others are meant for CENTER. The weasel does very well in base the way it is now. I don't know anymore if it should be getting anything new as of now. But, my point is that some ships may suck or be better in center, but when you base they have the opposite effect.

[Sharpflame]

On the "Shark Problem",

 

Sharks are only good at basing, and they're slow in the first place, have slow bullets, slow bombs, etc, so they really aren't too good at anything but basing We don't want the useless shark again. The burst being strong may be too strong, but think of when there was that super-burst. If the shark's burst was just like every other ship, except lanc, it'd still be kind of a useful ship, not useless like before.

 

So, what I'm trying to say, in a nuts!@#$%^&*, The shark sucks bad at center, it can only be good in bases IN MOST CASES. That kinda balances out the shark right there.

[Kilo]

It's a fallacy to claim that a ship is balanced because it sucks in one game but is uber in another.

[zephoid]

It's a fallacy to claim that a ship is balanced because it sucks in one game but is uber in another.

 

er.. this is the same zone. balanced meens good at one thing here in hs. center, or basing. usualy a ship is too good when it does both.

 

also, ters are never sopposed to catch wbs. unless ter is at max speed and wb is at slowest, or something near

[DaRuler]

also, ters are never sopposed to catch wbs. unless ter is at max speed and wb is at slowest, or something near

 

 

This is your opinion. It's not a law of HS

[Boldot]

It makes more sense, as speed is the wb's main "weapon," and if a terr can keep up with it, it entirely negates the point of having a wb. Terrs SHOULD be slower, I should be able to outrun a terrier in my jav, whereas right now, there are many that have more speed AND more thrust than me (which is not an easy task to accomplish.)

[zephoid]

also, ters are never sopposed to catch wbs. unless ter is at max speed and wb is at slowest, or something near

 

 

This is your opinion. It's not a law of HS

 

ok, what would wbs weigh? 2 tons? 3 tons? now look at a ter. 50 tons? 60?

inertia its a law of the physical world (yes im applying physics to continuum, don't laf). a ter should never be able to turn as fast as a wb.

[DaRuler]

how could you compare 2d spaceships to tons? lol =P If no ships can catch up to a wb then that makes the wb unfair. If you want to talk about balance my friend

[Masaru]

how could you compare 2d spaceships to tons? lol =P If no ships can catch up to a wb then that makes the wb unfair. If you want to talk about balance my friend

 

 

No, it gives the wb a reason to be used. Since it's not that strong terms of energy and weaponry.

[DaRuler]

Ok fine. Then terrs without max speed and max thrust cant keep up with wbs. So thats all you need to nerf in terms of speed

[cdrom]

my ideas...ahem...plz finish reading it all lol...

 

1. Warbird - its perfect the way it is.

2. Javelin - its kinda slower than before i think so...maybe give it a tiny bit more speed or rot? like 2%

3. Spider - Nothing to talk about.

4. Leviathan - Nothing to Talk about.

5. Terrs are a bit overpowered with their super speed,thrust,and good rot and energy and recharge. Maybe drop the energy to a max of 2000 and a min of 1250 and also either decrease speed or rot so they cant be a faster fighter than most wb or jav.

6. Weasels- energy good, recharge good, maybe needs the old gun speed?, maybe give it nuclear?, and whats the point of stingray on a wzl when it can have falcon? i was just wondering...

7. Lancasters - they're min energy is waaaaaaay too low, maybe change it back to the way it was before... 2000energy min, 3000 energy max. Also, its guns fire in 1 direction, wouldnt it be better for the old 3 way guns for basing?

8. Shark - speed good, energy good, size super good, overall too good for basing with its lanc sized bursts, the ablily to dodge most weapons, salvo, and super slow guns which makes shredders and phasers perfect for basing with it. Maybe decrease its burst size to something like a jav, or take out salvo for it.

 

 

some other things...im not satisfied with...:

1.salvo - its not that great on jav but its way too good on shark.

2. people can get double shrapnel with falcon when a flag game is won.

3. what the !@#$%^&* is this?how do i get there? they did that for like a few minutes and even brought flags there...(i would add screenshot but i dunno how to add it, what it is is an entire freq was inbetween the bases and c and bringing some flags there)

[Kilo]

er.. this is the same zone. balanced meens good at one thing here in hs. center, or basing. usualy a ship is too good when it does both.

No, a ship is too good if it is too good. It is not balanced if it is too good at one thing but not the other. Center melee and flagging are separate, and non-uberness in the other area does not make it balanced in the discussed area.

[Choose Profile]

Increase WZL bullet speed to what it was before size change.

SLIGHTLY DECREASE max speed for TERRIER.

 

 

DONT nerf the shark. The only reason it is useful for basing is because of its SIZE and decent energy. It in no way is overpowered. Almost every other (offensive) ship can have the same offensive set up as a good shark set up, but its the SIZE that makes it a little more difficult to kill. With its higher price tag, I think you get your proper moneys worth.

 

IE - WB vs SHARK with the same amount of energy and recharge, the size of the shark prevails.

IE - WB vs SHARK with the same reactors + add on's, the speed of the WB prevails.

 

balance.

 

 

IMHO