What Happened?

[Dk-]

Some of you know me from Hockey Zone, some of you might remember me from Hyperspace recently, or a year ago. I quit after they reset the money when everyone had like 500 million in hacked cash.

 

Anyway on to the actual post. Who !@#$%^&*ed this zone up? It's seriously so awful at the moment. Back when I played you were at a pretty big disadvantage when starting with a new, "stock", ship - but now it is so ridiculous it's not at all enjoyable. If you were a good player starting out back then, you could get kills on the vets with all the top items - which is not the case anymore. I have a jav and upgraded to get some bombs, I thought it was ridiculous at first that I would bomb a Terr 3-4 times while dodging the stupid bull!@#$%^&* shredder. Then the guy IS ACTUALLY afk in terr and I shoot him constantly bombs until I run out of energy - he doesn't die.

 

Basically the difference between the "haves" and "havenots" is so ridiculous that you can't even kill a highly upgraded ship at all with starting ship, even when they are !@#$%^&*ing afk.

 

This was actually the only other zone I would play besides HZ, because the upgrade/money aspect was original and the game play was decent.

 

I guess I'll just have Arnk, Acti or Scarface inform me if they ever plan to fix this, currently, awful zone.

 

I really don't understand how the person doing settings could !@#$%^&* up THAT badly, from the pretty balanced settings that this zone once enjoyed.

 

Bye,

Dennis Kucinich/Chimpeach/100 other aliases

[Sharpflame]

Haha,

 

 

It's just changing. Its not the same as it used to be, no, but changes happen. Ya, some things are lame, but they dont change right away. Have you seen doc's "To-Do" list? HS. Not done. It's still developing, so maybe about a month or even more, when the zone gets more stable, you'll get a chance to try again. Maybe doc's list will almost be done then.

[Dk-]

I understand that, like most things in subspace, it's a work in progress. What I don't understand is how after a year of not playing this, how could it go from a very good, pretty balanced zone to an unplayable atrocity?

 

Unless the guy has drastic changes in the works I can't see this zone being saved soon. If those drastic changes come, PM me.

Edited June 4, 2007 by DK-

[»Ceiu]

Uhh, how could you not kill a terrier with a jav? Even if he wasn't AFK, they're not tanks; three to four bombs could take down one easily -- five if they have bomb-specific armor.

 

I call bravo sierra on your post.

[cdrom]

um...the terr u were bombing probably had bomb armor of some sort(protection against bombs or shraps) so ur bombs would be weakened, u have to gun more:). anyways its not that bad i just started 3 days ago and i pwn people(mostly noobs with less than 10k exp). anyways if ur starting out some people might be glad to give u cash. also, its not that different from before, the higher energy ships tend to die less.

[Dk-]

Uhh, how could you not kill a terrier with a jav? Even if he wasn't AFK, they're not tanks; three to four bombs could take down one easily -- five if they have bomb-specific armor.

 

I call bravo sierra on your post.

 

 

You're right, I didn't have full energy and bomb the afk terrier until my energy was too low to shoot any more bombs.

 

I thought I would waste my time posting a lie about something that didn't actually happen because I am that bored. You got me. You are clever.

Edited June 5, 2007 by DK-

[cdrom]

lol ur right actually, i bombed a lanc at full health and didnt made a dent

[Dk-]

PS: this wasn't about this one incident, or one ship. It's just there is a much much bigger gap in the "power" of the ships now. The gap between those that play this zone a lot and the new players is much bigger than it was. Before I could keep my record around 1:1.5 with a stock ship(easily over 500 with a few upgrades and CC), now I am lucky to go 1:5. And what is annoying is dominating a player by making good shots and dekeing most of their shots but still losing because of the huge energy/recharge disadvantage

 

I'm sure 95% of the people on this forum, and staff, couldn't care less - because they are regulars here and have good ships. But I remember your population being much higher and you guys having a LOT of new players(lots from HZ) coming every day(racing with DBE with 30 people at midnight, turretwars etc.). But it's not fun anymore(starting anyway).

 

I don't mind struggling a lot in the beginning to work my way up to get better ships, the problem is(broken record) when you outplay someone 1on1 and basically dominate them, and you still die - it's not fun at all. And because new people aren't staying around much anymore it's very hard to find anyone else with stock ships.

 

You can run your zone and have the settings however you want. I'm posting this because I'd like to play this zone, and I probably wont with current settings. The system in place, I'm sure, keeps the vets happy - as they don't have to put in much effort(just spin in circles in terr and use shredder). I'm just letting you know how I feel and how I would be willing to bet a lot of people feel, after they try the zone and leave.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Your right, DK-. The people here today are pretty much the same 30-40 people who got in near a reset, where all ships are erased and we start over. If you don't get in then, have fun, because the staff doesn't see this as a big issue right now. There is balance in the game, but that's after you have the funds to get the counter to some balance issue/after you spend 50k on essential items for the particular ship.

 

The usual excuse from members is that they point out skill is a factor in the game, even for newbies. That's true, but here's what they don't say: The skill needed for newbies to live is getting larger and larger... For instance, you have your stock wb, that has has 950 HP and 970 dmg per sec with pulse. Next you have your maxed out shredder terr, with say, a quantum reactor. 1900 HP, 1857 dmg per sec, and much faster recharge. Oh, and let's not forget that the terr has two close combat, so there's repels as well. And there's that turret

in the backround, flinging tacnukes in every which direction... With two people of equal strength, who will most likely die first?

 

If anyone still thinks that's a 100% balanced situation, you need some new glasses. But wait...

 

What is defined as "balance"? Is that really balanced for that newbie? I don't agree, but maybe it somehow is. o_o

 

Anyways, we either need to make sure that ship combinations don't add up so much that they overwhelm the newbies. Or we can just make up excuses and let this continue. I hope for the former.

Edited June 5, 2007 by Relos

[»Ceiu]

Then explain to me how several players have surp!@#$%^&*ed me in funding and ship equipment even though I started the day of the last reset...

 

It's not as impossible as you're making it sound. I've got a secondary name I use periodically that was capable of killing people who I know have decent equipment. I'm not saying you're on even ground, but it's certainly not as hard as you're making it out to be. Plus, with the exp/money scaling and the shared money you get from flagging and allied kills, you make money real quick in this zone. Also, if all else fails, you can use always use the failsafe method of pretending to be a grrl on teh internets 4 pz $$.

 

But in any event, quit !@#$%^&*ing.

[Dk-]

But in any event, quit !@#$%^&*ing.

Typical ignore the problem answer.

 

I'm not !@#$%^&*ing I am telling you why your population is !@#$%^&* compared to a year ago. I already said I'm not playing this zone anymore unless the settings are fixed. Ignore the problem and tell new players to leave, good strategy. Not a surprising or unique response coming from someone who codes.

 

I play/ed this zone for 2 reasons: 1. HZers hang out here sometimes. 2. I liked the unique system of upgrades. Now that number 2 is horrible I have no reason to actually play the game.

 

I just thought I would be helpful and offer my thoughts/advice.

 

 

PS: "Then explain to me how several players have surp!@#$%^&*ed me in funding and ship equipment even though I started the day of the last reset..." Maybe they have all day to play? Maybe they started earlier and had a lot of even fighting against similarly upgraded ships?

 

I'm not saying it's impossible to level up and have a very good ship, I'm saying 95% of the potential population probably leaves because of how imbalanced it is and they don't have all day to try and get exp.

Edited June 5, 2007 by DK-

[Boldot]

I tested this recently, and in a completely unupgraded wb, I was able to earn 10,000 in about 20 minutes. I do!@#$%^&*ented it with as many screen shots as I could if you would like proof. Get on a pub freq that has mutlitple people on it, even if you dont get a kill you get their money. If you can get on a pub freq thats basing, thats even better. If all else fails, vulch.

 

No, it is not the kind of zone where instantly you are on the same level as everyone else, thats what gives it its appeal. You have to play to get better stuff. I know its quite daunting at times, but honestly its not that hard to earn enough for a few basic upgrades. I do understand that it can be quite annoying trying to fight some of the larger ships with more money on them, so don't fight them. There are plenty of other people trying to do just the same thing you are, they just arent whining about it.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Cerium, I got your point. But it's a lot easier for newbies then than now. Agreed? My point. I'm not saying it's impossible, but just can we all agree that there's an imbalance between newbies and maxed ships here?

 

Boldot, got it. Not impossible. My point is, though, is that it's harder to kill with a stock ship. And I pointed an extreme, merely to say that this game is imbalanced in a obvious manner. I was leaning towards a revamp in where your basic ship is the average, and all items would have their drawbacks in such a manner that all items of a set are about as good as any other statistic wise. Balancing in this case would raise issues if we try to change as little as possible, I know. If this is how Hyperspace should be, then no problem.

 

All I'm trying to point out is that Dk- is right; there is a gap between stock ships and maxed ships, and I've been thinking it can negate a difference in skill more than we would desire. Or do we care? It's easily possible to play in HS otherwise, right?

 

I will make a poll to see if what we think of the settings, as I'm curious to what we think here on the forums. If we decide, as a whole, that this settings need changing, we could then offer ideas afterwards, and maybe Dr Brain will think about it. If not, and we want the current settings as a whole, and I'll shut up knowing that Hyperspace is desirable this way. Sounds good?

Edited June 5, 2007 by Relos

[Dk-]

I tested this recently, and in a completely unupgraded wb, I was able to earn 10,000 in about 20 minutes. I do!@#$%^&*ented it with as many screen shots as I could if you would like proof. Get on a pub freq that has mutlitple people on it, even if you dont get a kill you get their money. If you can get on a pub freq thats basing, thats even better. If all else fails, vulch.

 

No, it is not the kind of zone where instantly you are on the same level as everyone else, thats what gives it its appeal. You have to play to get better stuff. I know its quite daunting at times, but honestly its not that hard to earn enough for a few basic upgrades. I do understand that it can be quite annoying trying to fight some of the larger ships with more money on them, so don't fight them. There are plenty of other people trying to do just the same thing you are, they just arent whining about it.

 

Sorry to tell you, but money isn't the problem. You are right I can get on a basing team or a large pub team and make an insane amount of money, quickly. The problem is gaining experience, which you have to make kills. Fighting in the open, in a stock ship, is stupid and not at all fun - and I haven't seen anyone basing in the 10 or so times I've been back.(and I don't know of any new players who want to sit around in a zone and wait hours for teams to start basing so they can get kills/experience)

 

And I don't think you get it. I don't think that you should be on the same level when you enter the zone. I like the ship upgrades, it's the reason I played this zone. But the disparity between the two is too great. The upgrades are too powerful. Before a more skilled player could put up a good fight in a stock ship. It should be long and hard to get the upgrades, but the upgrades shouldn't be as powerful.

 

Upgrades should give you an advantage - not make you practically invincible with ridiculous guns and laggy, twitching speed. You're taking all the skill out of the game how it currently is. A year ago it worked well, the upgrades gave you an impressive advantage but you still had to be skilled - it seems now longevity/seniority have replaced skill.

 

And a poll is pretty useless Relos, the people who come to the forums are the vets, who are probably happy with the system - since they are the ones benefiting. Maybe if you could do an "exit" poll when new players leave(and never come back).

Edited June 5, 2007 by DK-

[»Ceiu]

How are "vets" benefiting? Killing "newbs" nets us minimal cash and 0 experience. The only reasons to even kill them are (a) raises jackpot and ( stop someone from firing at you.

 

 

@Relos:

I agree, new players ARE at a disadvantage. But THAT'S THE POINT. You shouldn't come into the zone and be able to take out some established squads on your first day -- that's not what HS is about.

 

Regardless, with most vets having as much money as they do it's easy to come by someone willing to ?give some cash. In a worst case scenario, you simply have to sit on a populated public freq and leach money for a while. In either case, you can get the low-end upgrades within an hour or so. After that, you just need to get exp. At 5-6 exp/kill, it works out to be like 40-50 kills -- a simple task for ANYONE who spends an hour or so in pub.

 

 

@DK:

I'm not addressing the issue, because there isn't an issue here. Yeah it's harder for newbies to rush in and take on pros, but that's the point. They have to follow the same steps everyone else did to get to where we are. No one granted us 5 million and 50k exp -- we had to earn it (Except for a few players who need to die in fires).

[9vgnc3eZ01]

I tested this recently, and in a completely unupgraded wb, I was able to earn 10,000 in about 20 minutes. I do!@#$%^&*ented it with as many screen shots as I could if you would like proof. Get on a pub freq that has mutlitple people on it, even if you dont get a kill you get their money. If you can get on a pub freq thats basing, thats even better. If all else fails, vulch.

 

No, it is not the kind of zone where instantly you are on the same level as everyone else, thats what gives it its appeal. You have to play to get better stuff. I know its quite daunting at times, but honestly its not that hard to earn enough for a few basic upgrades. I do understand that it can be quite annoying trying to fight some of the larger ships with more money on them, so don't fight them. There are plenty of other people trying to do just the same thing you are, they just arent whining about it.

 

Sorry to tell you, but money isn't the problem. You are right I can get on a basing team or a large pub team and make an insane amount of money, quickly. The problem is gaining experience, which you have to make kills. Fighting in the open, in a stock ship, is stupid and not at all fun - and I haven't seen anyone basing in the 10 or so times I've been back.(and I don't know of any new players who want to sit around in a zone and wait hours for teams to start basing so they can get kills/experience)

 

And I don't think you get it. I don't think that you should be on the same level when you enter the zone. I like the ship upgrades, it's the reason I played this zone. But the disparity between the two is too great. The upgrades are too powerful. Before a more skilled player could put up a good fight in a stock ship. It should be long and hard to get the upgrades, but the upgrades shouldn't be as powerful.

 

Upgrades should give you an advantage - not make you practically invincible with ridiculous guns and laggy, twitching speed. You're taking all the skill out of the game how it currently is. A year ago it worked well, the upgrades gave you an impressive advantage but you still had to be skilled - it seems now longevity/seniority have replaced skill.

 

And a poll is pretty useless Relos, the people who come to the forums are the vets, who are probably happy with the system - since they are the ones benefiting. Maybe if you could do an "exit" poll when new players leave(and never come back).

I kind of thought it was stupid now that you say it. But don't mistake what I'm trying to say, I'm actually thinking about the same way as you do. Money isn't the issue, it's actually killing something, in my opinion. The balance may need fixing, or I could just be imagining it. I mean, only for new players, really, once you get leveled in it's fine, I think.

 

Cerium, I think you're right. If that's the point, then I have nothing more to say. Just remember that I was saying balance might be an issue, not money. Money can be given to others and so on, a balanced gamestyle may not work the same way. But you're right, remember, if that's the point of the game. =)

Edited June 5, 2007 by Relos

[»Ceiu]

Well, I can kill everyone else without trouble. So, I would assume that once you have enough money for some decent equipment, anyone else can do the same.

[Dk-]

Let it be known that I have a name with nearly 900 exp, I got 90% of this one single day while flagging*

 

So, excusing my previous posts, it IS easy to get kills/exp in this game. But 1. there is very rarely anyone ever flagging 2. when they are flagging its usually private teams with the Lancs. So your natural timeline of a newbie in this zone comes here, sees that it is just a shooting game, plays for an hour or so getting dominated, maybe buys a few low level upgrades, still gets dominated, leaves and never comes back.

 

And you have to be a pretty big !@#$%^&* if you think it's fun having a super upgraded ship and dominating stock ships. To reiterate, I have NOTHING against the buy/upgrade system, or having a system where seniority = better ship. BUT...As it is now there are not enough new players to kill when starting, the pimped out ships are just too powerful and there are rarely any flagging games going to get cheap kills.

 

 

 

*all in one single game when I got on a team of vets (BW?) by asking Acti for the password - and telling them I just guessed it, lulz.

[activation]

yea...

 

if anyone even cares or still remotely knows me, awesome. but I've really backed away from this zone in recent months. the cause is for reasons similar to dk's complaints.

 

regardless, I am aware this is a work in progress, and I know that HS will never be what it was 2 years ago, but at some point we need someone removed from the meticulous improvements being implemented and ask him/herself: Is this really good for the zone? The situation reminds me of Frankenstein (the book, not the comedy by Mel Brooks), in which science's endeavors render it possible for man to be cloned, but when he is, it brings nothing beneficial to society.

 

so it is in HS at the present state. yes, I really do think it's awesome that ASSS has made it possible for variables of ships to be edited to degrees that a normal server could not achieve. but is it really necessary to have? the only thing that is perpetuating the selling of these ship and bomb armors is the fact that all the "skilled" people (let's come to terms here, the people who play the most and form friendships while doing so) buy them and hold advantage over the casual player.

 

and no, as some analytical people who may find one point they disagree with in this post and isolate their retort based on it, it is not only limited to bomb armor. while the prospect of customization in general is awesome - it makes the zone what it is - too many options presents a problem. how many hours must someone dedicate just to be at the point of one of the more "skilled" players? the more addons and revisions to existing items, the longer. and so the notion crossed brain I'm certain, so he raises the prices on everything. this is more of a bandaid solution, to stop the wound of those attempting to have a full ship in every ship, but on the other end of the spectrum, it only adds more and more hours the casual player has to dedicate to be close to even with the others.

 

somewhere along the line, for whatever reason, brain or a cohort decided to increase freq compacity. I applaud this idea, however the extending to private freqs makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. the only thing you are accomplishing is isolating pop FURTHER to the 8-12 people who dedicate their lives to this zone. I'm almost certain they wouldn't care if it were to come to that, but you as a zone owner must have some concern.

 

although I know this will briefly cease when money is reset, the cycle will just start again. the only viable solution long term is this. isolate public frequencies to 0 and 1, uncap pub freq limit, and minimize maximum private freqs back to 5 people. that way, when lower pop is on, the cool clique or what have you can dominate, but in the peak hours, some diversity will be obtained, and money will be dispersed more freely, resulting in less hostility as you see here. you can keep all the nifty auxiliary custom doo-dads, just spike their prices to a high rate, and return to lower prices for key items like bombs, guns, energy, etc. then casual player can obtain all the main equipment that everyone else has with lower dedication, while the more dedicated players have a slight edge, as they should, but not overbearing as it is now.

 

 

I give mad props to whoever decided to read that. If nothing else, skim the last paragraph. Until the zone can get some balance to it, I declare it closed due to aidz.

[9vgnc3eZ01]

That would solve the problem, activation. But it would be considered a "big change", and people hate those, so you will find "analytical people who may find one point they disagree with in this post and isolate their retort based on it", lol. But it's a better way to balance things out then I ever thought of. Good thinking there.

[Boldot]

I don't think limiting the private freq's is quite the answer, but I do like the idea of uncapping the pub freqs. The way it is now is decent, but could really continue on a bit. I like that until 8 players you can choose to join the pub freqs, what I don't agree on is the fact that they cap out at 10. Even if they went to 14-16 it would help tremendously, because it would take a really strong private freq to hold off almost double the attacking players (although that would be tremendous fun trying.) The problem this poses is that it destroys a lot of private freq usage, which to you may seem like a good thing. I have never liked the great divide that HS has had in recent times between rich vets and starting newbs, but knowing what its like from both sides, it is entirely possible to overcome, its just that most people don't have that kind of patience.

What I believe what most caused this gap, is the way money is earned. Before it was flagging, balling, or 1 btying, being in the crappiest ship possible trying to vulch kills for giant profits. The money system of more bty=more money is completely non newb friendly. If there was any sort of big change to happen, what I would most like to see is something along those lines, where more money is earned the crappier the ship you have, not just based on the number of consecutive kills.

[activation]

I don't think limiting the private freq's is quite the answer, but I do like the idea of uncapping the pub freqs. The way it is now is decent, but could really continue on a bit. I like that until 8 players you can choose to join the pub freqs, what I don't agree on is the fact that they cap out at 10. Even if they went to 14-16 it would help tremendously, because it would take a really strong private freq to hold off almost double the attacking players (although that would be tremendous fun trying.) The problem this poses is that it destroys a lot of private freq usage, which to you may seem like a good thing. I have never liked the great divide that HS has had in recent times between rich vets and starting newbs, but knowing what its like from both sides, it is entirely possible to overcome, its just that most people don't have that kind of patience.

What I believe what most caused this gap, is the way money is earned. Before it was flagging, balling, or 1 btying, being in the crappiest ship possible trying to vulch kills for giant profits. The money system of more bty=more money is completely non newb friendly. If there was any sort of big change to happen, what I would most like to see is something along those lines, where more money is earned the crappier the ship you have, not just based on the number of consecutive kills.

 

I agree to some extent. and just like you I have been both among the richest and the poorest, I know what it's like for both sides. the thing that happens with uncapped 2 pub freqs is that people will sit in spec and wait to get on their desired freq one way or the other. that allows some manipulability at the person's own risk. and private freqs still have a say. this may seem like apples and oranges, but when redstar used to be populated, you would see 7 man private freqs take out a 12-14 person public freq with ease. granted, that took actual skill, but the same would occur here. and I'm not saying that this is a cureall - the strongest will still win - however, what it initiates is more interaction. and interaction is the key element in this zone that is the only solution to solving the economy.

 

as for the method on alternatives for money, I personally favor the old system. but I'm pretty sure that's not going to be implemented. I do however think that balling would be a great addition, if the money value was low. Say.. 25-50$ per goal. That way, a priv freq would have little benefit trying to manage basing and balling (!@#$%^&*uming freq restrictions like I mentioned were implemented).

 

Let's continue this thread for the purpose of spitballing ideas to solve this problem guys.

[cdrom]

25-50$ thats so low i would rather kill, and the 12-14 people / freq... that will kill me im usually on a priv alone and i would hate to be chased by 14 people who dont shoot at each other...anyways its not like starting noobs start with nothing, they get 5k which can buy some upgrades, and they make over 100$/kill. im making like 5k/10min atleast because my exp is so low.

[activation]

25-50$ thats so low i would rather kill, and the 12-14 people / freq... that will kill me im usually on a priv alone and i would hate to be chased by 14 people who dont shoot at each other...anyways its not like starting noobs start with nothing, they get 5k which can buy some upgrades, and they make over 100$/kill. im making like 5k/10min atleast because my exp is so low.

 

alright let me try to wade through this.

 

you should rather want to kill. if ball value was worth 250$, idle times would have one person racking up thousands of unanswered dollars. balling should go hand in hand with center killing, a way of making a few extra dollars.

 

and the point of having large pub is to discourage small private freqs. 12-14 people killing another freq of 12-14 people would give way more money from partial distribution from teammate kills than soloing on private, so why would you do it? If you had 5 people for the purpose of flagging with good enough ships, however, you could make some more money at around the same rate.

 

lastly, 5k in 10 minutes is outright ridiculous. I dont believe that bomblining in a base with 400 bty for 10 minutes would give you that. please exclude gross exaggerations when attempting to present a retort to a resonable, progressive argument.

[cdrom]

ok maybe it is a tiny bit exaggerated but not by much, i get like 100bty or so most of the time if i try and its fun to steal flags from noobs and win it alone (they cant catch me im super fast)