LancRushing!

[Sharpflame]

Rushing lancs can take over a base easily... I say they be banished from rockets for HS's sake. IMO.

 

Really, I don't have much more to say.

[*rc 1223*]

are y blind? i posted the same thing like 3 days ago u blind bob

[Sharpflame]

are y blind? i posted the same thing like 3 days ago u blind bob

 

Oh I thought it was something about a squad, Lancarmy or whatever. No need to get pushy.

Edited May 18, 2007 by Sharpflame

[Deathboy-evil]

Ok, well before you start reading this.. there's a little warning here.. do not take anything here offensive or personal, this is just my personal opinion... and everyone has an equal right to say their own opinion.. so if you are going to be offended or taking things personal.. then stop reading from here on in..

 

Personally, I say you guys are all re!@#$%^&*ed.. I played HS for the first time in a while today.. I can officially say that this is no longer HS.. but HS evolution.. to something worse in my mind.. I say don't bother complaining bout LancRushing.. you guys brought it on yourselves... this was quoted from 3vil.. earlier tonight when I was talking to him on the phone.. "It seems the more people try to balance the zone by complaining with new threads and new additions, the more unbalanced it becomes...".. I don't know about what you guys think of this.. but I personally think that's true. HS is no longer what it was before.. it's no longer fun.. I came and played to find some pretty overpowered ships.. since when do Warbird's suck so much?.. as a starting ship.. it should be a good one.. my warbird is pretty much maxed out.. and I got hit by 1 jav bomb.. just one.. and I died.. Everytime .. not just once.. before it used to be 2-3 jav bombs.. what the !@#$%^&* is up with weasels.. their completely overpowered.. especially those emp bombs that freeze your energy.. this is some pretty wacked up !@#$%^&*.. because wzl bombs usually go.. (when they come at you and hit you) .. boom.......boom.......boom.......boom.. but instead.. today.. the bombs that hit me were.. boom...boom...boom...boom...boom like wtf was up with that.. i got murdered in 2 seconds.. how the !@#$%^&* do you expect a new joiner to the zone to even get 1 kill.. in a warbird.. if a maxed warbird.. playing gets murdered by one jav bomb.. personally.. I think all you whiners .. screwed the sets up for everyone... this zone no longer requires any skill.. as a player I can maintain my warbird.. I used to be able to take on 7 people at once.. just fooling around.. but now just fooling around.. I can barely manage 3.. cuz everyone's in an overpowered wzl or ter.. wzl's bursts are completely blown out of proportion too.. stop whining about every single thing..

 

Look, as I saw it.. HS used to be fun.. it used to be amazing.. the way it was.. with a few bugs.. and small things that could have been changed.. so i figured.. we would change things and add things.. add smaller and smaller things.. slowly and change the bugs etc.... but not make it so that every time someone complained.. we had to change the zone for them.. warbirds.. starting ships... completely useless.. one bomb they die.. for maxed.. that's pathetic.. jav's... i saw a few bullets they died.. just a message to everyone.. stop complaining about every small flipping detail.. because all your doing is ruining the zone everytime we have to change the zone for you guys.. that's my opinion and mine alone.. as you can see I'm obviously annoyed and pissed off with everyone wanting things changed to their way.. to something that involves no skill.. just overpowered bs.. and obviously.. now basing has turned into only lancrushing.. which is completely pointless cuz basing used to be fun..

[Evil Doom]

Everything dbe has said is 100% true...

 

The vets of hs know... since many years ago... Hs was the bomb then...

Last Summer hs had it's bugs and issues... but they were mostly small things... slowly things got lamer... shredder came in, now this stupid shrap booster is there... and cuz lancs and levis energy is so !@#$%^&* high... that i guess they increased bamb and gun dmg or something... cuz bombs ar one hit kill to warbirds and guns are deadly to javs... the 2 ships that required skill to use properly cant even be used properly with skilled players because many other newbs buy ships that "get more kills" by using wzl and terr in center... Centering has been killed for people that liked javs and warbirds...

 

I haven;t based with these new sets so i cant say much... but ide guess it got lamer aswell... they more you newbs complain about hs the worse it gets... yes your opinions matter... but think long and hard b4 u say how you would go about to fix it... cuz ur wish might come true and it could make it worse for new players and players that want to use skill to own

[11___________]

Agreed 100%. Thats why i changed my sig to "Very, Semi-Retired." HS got boring, i got intuned with my ships, i knew them perfectly. Then it all changed, javs got 1 hit kills with bombs, some ships got bigger, some smaller, i think terr and spdr were just switched, i no longer see the dog-fighting, corner milkng, base rushing hs. I see a slower game, where someone hides all the flags waits on their squad until they all arrive, and win a 70k jp. And there is no chance for another team to take it. This HS is not meant for me.

[Dr Brain]

I especially like the part where DBE complains about how the weasel's emp is overpowered, when I didn't actually change its settings.

 

I understand there are problems, but I can't take any of you seriously when you complain about things that haven't been changed.

[Choose Profile]

And the only way to get things changed back is to make threads and discuss the ideas. Oh wait. Thats BLASPHEMY!

 

But i agree with DBE/evil in some ways. It seems like one move is made to balance the zone, but 2 new problems arise. All of a sudden its "fest" for every other thing. Basing has became stale, and no longer requires any skill.

 

Oh wait, besides the amount of skill it takes to make enough money to buy a maxed out lanc. Thats it.

 

I cant play this way anymore -_-

[Muskrat]

I disagree with dbe/his followers. Personally I think that the settings are better: more balanced, more fun, better for newcomers, and better for fighting in center. I won't presume to say about flagging, as I don't do that as much. Nevertheless, I think they have glossed over the huuuuge problems we had back then. Furthermore, I think they only praise those times as some kind of glory days for HS because that was the time in which these complainers were at the top of their game, they are biased because then they were playing 24/7 and in dbe's case leading a top squad at the time. Anyways, I like things now, and I do think there are less complainers than in the past which if you remember there have always been complainers, even when nobody played in the zone.

 

 

Anyways.... that's my take on the situation. :-)

[the_accountant]

For an outsider all I see is complaining here DBE makes a long post telling the complainers to shut up and in the same post complains. woo.

[Choose Profile]

BASING is stale. Center killing has expanded and is better, if not much better, than it used to be. Attempting to rack up kills as a new player has to be troublesome though with all the additions of weapons/drives/utilities etc. 90% of my play is basing though, so it seems that everything has gone to ****.

[Deathboy-evil]

I especially like the part where DBE complains about how the weasel's emp is overpowered, when I didn't actually change its settings.

 

I understand there are problems, but I can't take any of you seriously when you complain about things that haven't been changed.

 

Ok.. i'll admit.. the boom.. boom.. thing was over the top.. lmao.. but with the new sets.. even if you haven't changed anything to that "part".. the other changes have made that "part" become overpowered..

 

Muskrat, incase you haven't noticed.. the only real ships that center now are either jav, ter, wzl, and the occasional spd/lev.. the ship with the most agility and that requires most skill.. (warbird) has been completely downgraded.. If you don't believe me.. do what I did.. make a new account.. start off in a warbird.. and try playing .. you might understand what I mean...

 

As far as I can see.. Rc just thinks he's smart.. needs to get a life.. stop obsessing over his squad because it hasn't proven !@#$%^&*... as for my squad.. (me leading it) that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.. what I'm saying here.. is I'm proving some points that need to be dealt with.. these aren't points that need to be criticized.. I've already spoken to many people in HS.. especially vets... (more vets then everyone else, but I have spoken to lots of people) and a lot of them feel the same way.. as CP has said.. "It seems like one move is made to balance the zone, but 2 new problems arise."

 

Aoi, had told me that all basing is now... is just LancRushing.. and it didn't surprise me that I would find a new topic talking about it.. and Muskrat.. just because they agree with me does not make them "followers". Just because I'm the one to mention it first or whatever.. doesn't mean that it hasn't been discussed.. I usually bring these points out if the majority of the public has been talking about it.. and if I strongly feel that it's true.. which in this case I do.. and so do a lot of other people.. lol.. I'm not trying to turn into 2d with his super long posts here.. but I'm just pointing out things that need to be recognized here.. and yes .. it is true.. for everytime we fix one thing.. one, two or more problems arise.. and it's screwed it to the point where some ships have been screwed to the max.. and something needs to be said/done.. I even spoke to Fat Cat.. I remember him and myself used to always have warbird duels.. but he even told me that he uses a shark now.. because warbird just sucks.. (Obviously I'm fighting for one ship in particular because it's the only ship I really play and have fun with).. so i'll stop this right now.. bcuz it's already too long.. but i'm just saying .. take a look at it.. I'm tired of everyone always making new threads to get the smallest things changed.. and all these small changes adding up to screw something important... over..

[shot_237]

new stuffs r added in this style: 'more power, more penalty/cost'. you can still make balance with this style, but this style will reduce players' chance(and choice) of reaction. low chance of reaction make players mindlessly rely on luck, or make player observe whole area to detect everything. -both ways are far from fun of 2d shooting game. i liked hs because i like tactical movements. good chance of reaction allow players develop tactical movements.

 

brain, emp problem is.. he missile. he has shorter delay than stingray. weasels can fire bombs more often. he is also a level 2 bomb. at high population, he often hit more than 1 ship in center with its wider splash radius. 3 times bounce also help making a random hit. emp effect & large splash radius & short delay & small energy cost = evil allowing he/falcon for weasel also made stingray completely useless.

 

i have to be a complainer about new 'turret base' item. omg 10 more repels! turret base with close combat give a ship 12~13 repels. turret base have penalty on slots and bursts, but slots r not a real penalty and bursts penalty can be easily negated by this many amount of repels. turret base is being used in bases. in center turreting, this item will make them invincible. well, do you wanna say engine failure can kill em?

[Dr Brain]

If turret base is unbalanced, then it will be fixed (or removed). You have to realize that it's hard to make an item useful for one task but worthless for another.

[Choose Profile]

I say STOP with all the omega items like cobalt warhead and whatever this "turret base" item is.

 

I would LOVE for fields to disapear.

 

I think reps should have a cap of 2 MAX for ships (1 would be even better IMO) and for bursts to be capped at 1, with the exception of 2 for perhaps warbirds & spiders (spiders especially, as a non-rushing ship).

 

Wouldnt mind a bit if shredder and HE missiles are taken away.

 

Lanc should have lower energy, slower speed, but perhaps better armor?

 

Levi's definately need to be nerfed in some way. I think just taking away bursts or at least reducing them to 1 for levi's would be phenomenal.

 

Quantum should still be available on warbirds and javs, can we PLEASE stop nerfing them further?

[»Ceiu]

I say STOP with all the omega items like cobalt warhead and whatever this "turret base" item is.

 

Nah. If anything, I think the cobalt needs to be made more powerful -- if someone wants to spend 50k for a one-time-use weapon which may not even have any significant payoff, let them have their fun.

 

 

I would LOVE for fields to disapear.

 

Why? They're a !@#$%^&* to get to buy (unless you have ID, which costs a metric !@#$%^&*ton in itself), the launcher removes the possibility for AD, they're expensive if you use them en-mass and there's a strong possibility they won't have a significant effect on the game. Infact, the last three flag games I've participated in, I've dropped around 30k total for fields and didn't win a single game.

 

 

I think reps should have a cap of 2 MAX for ships (1 would be even better IMO) and for bursts to be capped at 1, with the exception of 2 for perhaps warbirds & spiders (spiders especially, as a non-rushing ship).

 

Definately agree here, though. Item spaming is annoying and seems to be the key to basing.

 

 

Wouldnt mind a bit if shredder and HE missiles are taken away.

 

Why? Shredder bullets are easy to dodge and they use a ton of energy to fire; plus, there's two armors that pretty much negates the weapon entirely. HE, is nothing special and I don't even know why it bothers you. The only good thing about it is the blast radius since it's an L2. Aside from that, it does less damage than falcon and thanks to the new Shrap Booster weapon, most people are moving away from it anyway (If anything needs a nerf, it's that).

 

 

 

 

Lanc should have lower energy, slower speed, but perhaps better armor?

 

Meh. With ZPM it has 4k energy, it's already slow as !@#$%^&* and you can buy armor. I think the problem is that it's a basing ship, which means you have to choose between coils or generally useful armor -- and since everyone spams bursts, it's a fairly easy decision.

 

Levi's definately need to be nerfed in some way. I think just taking away bursts or at least reducing them to 1 for levi's would be phenomenal.

 

Maybe. I've only seen one person with an irritating levi setup. He's not hard to kill, it's just tedius since he has infusion AND AD.

 

Quantum should still be available on warbirds and javs, can we PLEASE stop nerfing them further?

 

I agree here, as well. Though, with the falcon+shrap booster staple that everyone seems to be using now, it doesn't matter what reactor you have: warbird/jav will die to a single bomb regardless.

[Choose Profile]

As for cobalt, turretbase thingy, and fields, i generally just dislike them. These items only reward the wealthy and experienced with new ways to screw with new kids. The idea in general is good, but i think such items will only hurt the growth of the zone.

 

I think lancs need tweaking. I HATE the whole lancrush crap. This isnt old HS, and this is no where near balanced. I think a slightly slower lanc withonly one burst/rep could help to negate lancrush ftw.

 

Levi is obviously designated as the high-energy bomber, why not leave it at that and not give it tankrushing ability? nerf its bursts is really all that needs to be done i think.

[»Ceiu]

Well, lancs only can rush because they have rockets. Generally, they're too slow and lack firepower to maneuver around bases. Remove rockets, and cap bursts at 1 (and maybe reduce burst shrapnel) and I think you'll be set.

 

Levi though... I'm not entirely sure if I'd rather have an army of leviathans doing the same thing a lanc does now. Granted, they can't attach to each other so it might be easier to hold them back but... meh, who knows. Would certainly make it more popular on basing-teams, that's for sure.

[shot_237]

If turret base is unbalanced, then it will be fixed (or removed). You have to realize that it's hard to make an item useful for one task but worthless for another.

Thank you brain. (btw i know that )

 

 

Well, lancs only can rush because they have rockets. Generally, they're too slow and lack firepower to maneuver around bases. Remove rockets, and .....

Lancs need rockets to move from center to bases quickly. give 1 more ftl spot to lancs if u wanna remove their rockets.

[»D1st0rt]

Lancs aren't really supposed to get anywhere quickly, they are ZEE MOTHERSHIP

[James1293]

Just so ppl dont have to read a lot for my post...

 

LANC RUSHING IS DEFINITELY TOO GOOD. IDK HOW TO GET RID OF IT BUT PLZ DO SOMEHOW.

[11___________]

I believe i have a solution to this all, dont allow lancs to have bursts. Then there will be no need for a lanc rush.

[Boldot]

Since this seems to have moved away from just lanc rushing being a problem into an actual discussion about issues people have...

 

I agree with a lot of what has been said about the problems with basing. Items have become THE main staple of basing ships, especially bursts. Even with radiating coils and ZPM, my Levi doesnt last very long against the onslaught of lanc bursts that is commonly found in basing these days. Im a firm advocate of either nerfing bursts in general, or limiting the number of available bursts to each ship. I would be very happy to log in, and find my lev no longer capable of holding more than 1 burst, and 2 reps if it would mean less item spammage in bases.

 

I have yet to see turret base in use, but I cant say that I like to prospect of lancasters having 10+ repels in a base. True repels arent useful as an attacking weapon, they are still used more than should be possible. I can only imagine a group of attacking lancs just repping constantly pushing their way through a base. The only thing that doesnt make it overpowered is that you cannot have AD with it as well (if it being an "alien tech" as well means no AD).

 

I dont see fields or cobalt being much of a problem in bases, as they are hardly ever used (much like bricks these days), quite expensive to use (also like bricks), and are only really good when used skillfuly.

 

The ability for lancs to rush seems to be quite counter intuitive to their use. In agreement with D1, lancs should be "ZEE MOTHERSHIP." More energy and recharge would probably be appropriate, if speed/thrust/rotation/rockets were reduced as well. To me, it should be a ship that sits in the back, while OTHER ships do ALL the fighting. Dropping a mine or two to protect itself, or reppeling enemy ships away (or if Brain ever gets those point defense lasers implemented) should be about the extent of a lancs use in battle.

 

Those are the only real problems that I have seen at the moment with basing. Im sure that changing all of this will make other changes necessary, but its a start.

 

As far as centering goes, it seems to have gotten more balanced than what it was. Yeah sure shredder terrs with salvo and infusion are lame, but not impossible to kill. Each ship has a specific way to fight in the center, and each has a way to fight against it.

 

Harpy missile seems to have been forgotten, same delay as HE missile, but costs more energy and is 1 level below it? prox on an L1 bomb that has to hit square on to do any damage? falcon uses less energy than it, and it gets shrap! I like the idea of it, but its execution seems to have fallen short.

 

Ok, thats enough of that for now...

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Boldot said it all. I'm completely with him when it comes to lancs.

[nebulou]

heres what i think should change:

 

Lanc thrust greatly reduced

 

Lanc rotation greatly reduced

 

Lancs have all rocket utilities removed

 

Turret Base gets rockets instead of reps, and a rotation bonus