BRICKS!

[Choose Profile]

Well throughout the entire day ive encountered one flagging-related problem...

 

The recent use of BRICKS has become overwhelming. I'm watching (or flagging while) every single flag game is being won or lost by who uses the most bricks. If the defending team is trying to win and starts to get overwhelmed? no problem, just 'brick brick rush die summon' and repeat the process. If the attacking team is trying to rush but wants to easily keep any ground they manage to gain? no problem, 'brick brick rush die summon' and repeat. This is getting out of control. The last flag game i was in became intense, and not to my surprise did i see that between 4-8 bricks were deployed simultaneously by both teams the ENTIRE TIME.

 

So what (if anything) can we do to cir!@#$%^&*vent this problem?

 

1st Idea: To use the old brick-using system, having bricks bought as one-time use items. To use a brick you would have to run to the store, buy a brick, attach to your lanc, then lay it and fight your opponents. Obviously this would greatly reduce the number of bricks being used by each team, and they would usually be used only in tight or extreme situations. Also, if wanted it could be made possible for a player to buy multiple bricks at the same time, or buy different types of bricks (cages, wide bricks, etc.). For example PLAYER A could buy 2 "bricks" for 1k each, or even buy a "pack of bricks" (2 bricks) instead of buying multiple single bricks.

 

2nd Idea: Keep bricks as items that you purchase and keep for each life, as currently set up, but change the delay time for them. As in make it possible so you cannot lay a brick until 20 seconds after you spawn. I also LOVE this idea. This would make it impossible for each team's rushers to ATTACH, BRICK, DIE, ATTACH, BRICK repeatedly. Players on each team would actually have to battle it out on their own for a while before using their bricks. Of course with teams of 5 or 6 (with one lanc) there still could be many bricks layed a minute between the teamates, but with the bricks short lifespan, it would not be a big issue at all.

 

3rd Idea: Simply change brick prices. 150k for a wide brick would discourage use somewhat i believe.

 

With all this brick usage, we might as well start building cities.

 

What's Your Opinion?

Edited April 23, 2007 by Choose Profile

[Sound]

This has been suggested before, I personally don't agree to it. I don't think any part of bricks should be changed. Bricking is a part of flagging in HS and is a part of rushing, It's not about who has the most bricks, its about who can use their bricks more strategically - If you can time your bricks right to warp the lanc or set in a brick right before you die, etc, it's a part of it. Yeah like you said the flag game got intense, and you saw a lot of bricks. Intense is good, and i see no problem with a lot of bricks. If we start needing to buy bricks over an over again, long term people begin to stack millions when all their ships are maxed and the pros crush the newbs with as many bricks as they want when the newbies hardly learned how to get to the store. Let's keep our cities. Edited April 23, 2007 by Sound

[Choose Profile]

Flawed.

 

I understand what your getting at, but the current way bricks are handled is nothing close to balance.

 

Theres no strategy needed while using bricks when your team can have between 8-12 bricks at their disposal at any second. If you have 4 people in warbird/javs with double bricks who rush, they will easily reach and brickwarp their enemies lanc (if not the entire other team). Of course, this is counteracted by the other teams 5000 bricks as well. I use intense as a descriptive word for an in the moment realization. These bricks are amased whether the game is intense or not.

 

Having to buy bricks over and over again would be to discourage players from actually using them so much. An entire team's players are not going to run to the store after every death to buy bricks. As for the price issue and long termers having alot more to spend on bricks; long termers with fully maxed ships would put newbs at a severe disadvantage to begin with, so running and buying bricks every life would cause very little added effect. These "pros" with their maxed ships wouldnt need to buy bricks to "crush the noobs" in the first place.

 

BTW, who are you sound? 0_0

 

EDIT: ahh nevermind i see your daresound, so that makes sense for the opposing-view.

Edited April 23, 2007 by Choose Profile

[shot_237]

Each side lay bricks and wait for enemy's brick to disappear. Stream of gameplay pause for a while, players suppress their aggression until the situation change. Thus repeated suppression of mind make them displeased, often make players blame/sneer/ignore at someone even if they have won the game. This is dark side of 'intense' gameplay. Edited April 23, 2007 by shot_237

[Dr Brain]

Done.

[Choose Profile]

Done.

 

what do you mean done?

[Kilo]

Prediction: Usage of Brick Attack Fields and Energy Infusions will rise dramatically. Fortunately those items don't have quite as many innate problems.

[Fat Cat]

FINALLY! Maybe now I'll actually get outta spec and start flagging...once my finals are over of course But this will definately help basing. YAY

[Suicide_Run]

Btw, which team won the flag game? Also, if you logged into HS and read the news you would know why Brain said "done" cause its 1 time use for bricks. I think poacher box's exp requirement should be dropped down slightly to 10k-12.5k cause now that its one time use, I dont think the effect of Poacher Box is all that useful.

 

I dont think the use of Brick Attack Fields and Energy Infusions would rise that significantly. Imo, energy infusion would help for the bigger ships that has more hp but for a rusher, and brick attack would rise but not everyone is just gonna drop normal bricks and switch to brick atks.

 

Well, lets just see how this goes.

[Choose Profile]

I know now sui, i was leaving for school when i replied and i didnt get the chance to play any before i posted. And in that flag game, my team (which was attacking at the time) eventually overran the other team and we later won the flag game. A flag game before that was lost because of brick super-usage.

 

I feel you FC, im going through the same thing now.

 

 

 

 

Great job Doc

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Now Antideath is the most potent thing in Hyperspace thanks to this. I agree that bricks are cheap, but now Antideath has no balance. Bricks helped kept these Antideath rushers from attacking the enemy. And now the pros can just save their bricks for the NME lanc, and with the current Antideath, it's plenty effective. On top of that, newb teams usually got only 1 lanc, so meaning this: newb teams are now more doomed to the rich than ever. With bricks like this, I think knocking Anti-death to a 2-second or so respawn is a counter. I mean, give the newbs a chance here... eh?

[11___________]

I dissagree with some of it. Ever since bricks were turned to an item, attacking basers has become nearly impossible. What i find mostly is defending team using TONS of bombs with shrap, and then once the attackers get by the shrap, a terr or wzl is ready to turn them to bits. So this would turn the attackers into just Repel, Burst, Die. This makes it extremely difficult to gain base for attackers.

 

I am not sure if bricks cannot be bought away from store, but this would help the attacking team get an edge.

[Choose Profile]

Relos, bricks were used to prevent AD'ers from rushing past nme while invisible AFTER they had died the first time. Since AD has changed to lock the player in his spot after he dies, bricks dont really make much of a difference stopping them. If you expect a player has AD (or is just an established player or plays 24/7) then keep firing after the player dies to kill them when they respawn.

 

About newb teams being "doomed," at 15-20k for basic bricks, a "noob" team wouldnt be able to afford them to begin with. Also now basic bricks are only 500 a pop, so player X (a noob presumably) can just go to store and buy one then use it. It would take 40 bricks to make up the cost of a double brick.

 

11__, this is somewhat true, but say a "noob" team is the defending team. Now they will not lose their ground or bomblines as fast because more experienced players can easily steal bomblines with bricks, EVERYTIME THEY SPAWN. As for the less experienced team being the attackers... one player can go to the store, buy a brick, use it, and secure a bombline with a rep or two.

[11___________]

11__, this is somewhat true, but say a "noob" team is the defending team. Now they will not lose their ground or bomblines as fast because more experienced players can easily steal bomblines with bricks, EVERYTIME THEY SPAWN. As for the less experienced team being the attackers... one player can go to the store, buy a brick, use it, and secure a bombline with a rep or two.

 

But would the noob team be able to successfully buy bricks, and use them, and afford them? When we were attacking, the teams were even in strengh, except they had the bombline. So many bombs were coming that no one could get close enough for a good brick.

[Choose Profile]

Rep the BL

[9vgnc3eZ01]

Relos, bricks were used to prevent AD'ers from rushing past nme while invisible AFTER they had died the first time. Since AD has changed to lock the player in his spot after he dies, bricks dont really make much of a difference stopping them. If you expect a player has AD (or is just an established player or plays 24/7) then keep firing after the player dies to kill them when they respawn.

 

About newb teams being "doomed," at 15-20k for basic bricks, a "noob" team wouldnt be able to afford them to begin with. Also now basic bricks are only 500 a pop, so player X (a noob presumably) can just go to store and buy one then use it. It would take 40 bricks to make up the cost of a double brick.

 

11__, this is somewhat true, but say a "noob" team is the defending team. Now they will not lose their ground or bomblines as fast because more experienced players can easily steal bomblines with bricks, EVERYTIME THEY SPAWN. As for the less experienced team being the attackers... one player can go to the store, buy a brick, use it, and secure a bombline with a rep or two.

 

Newb teams I considered to be all people who can't get in a well-known team a.k.a can't afford Antideath. So if that's to broad, consider them whatever you think that is. Also, don't think that they can just go buy 40 bricks. Anti-death rushers repelling, bursting, and using rockets aren't exactly going to wait for you to get a brick. Also, the maximum speed people can move after getting un-locked is very high, which pros will achieve by the time they have anti-death. The long wait just forces a lanc to hold a position away from the locked person for a bunch of precious seconds if they don't want to be rushed. You could try repelling them, but by the time they get unlocked these days you may not have any left from merely all the bursts they throw at you. This is not including all of the other shrapenel flying around from other ships, or if more than one ship rushes at a time.

 

Let me just say this=anti-death is broken. How it plays out in the game is cheap. The explanations I get from the posting don't show up the same in the game. The game gives those fast ships another chance to get to the lanc so to madly burst or brick the victim. Try to understand the difference of what you assume would happen and the actual game scenerio in your case. It does not play out the same. The game scenerio currently is that Anti-death decides the game winner. THey may not be as broken as bricks, but they are broken in their own right, enough to decide a game. Something needs to be changed.

 

In fact, I don't care what you guys THINK happens in this case. It is already a fact what anti-death is doing. The ACTUAL scenerio this: Anti-death decides a flag winner. It does not GUARANTEE, but it SIGNIFICANTLY changes the outcome of a game, AS A FACT. The fact that it is so expensive only widens the gap between rich and poor. If the game is supposed to make people think it's balanced, then there needs to be a change. I don't think we should have unlimited use bricks, so I say just power down this thing. Price, EXP requirement, whatever it takes to not make it so lop-sided for a flag game.

Edited April 24, 2007 by Relos

[11___________]

true, ad offsides the game ALOT. I think in the list of improvements ad was going to be given another counterpart to offside it. Also i think billy and maybe 2 other people have ad. since bricks were take out, the ad'er(s) usually just burst\rep, then rush the lanc, insteam of rush then brick. anyways its still a problem.

[Choose Profile]

I just lanced until 900+ bounty and an 85k jackpot against a team that (for a while) had AD'ers. No problems on my part. My team didnt need any bricks to protect me, and the team was not made up of "vet's".

 

And btw, this thread is about BRICKS, not AD.

 

 

In the entire flag game only 1 brick was used, and it was by a member of my team to stop a strong rush. This is brilliant and what should be happening. Bricks should be used rarely and effectively.

 

As for pricing issues, if a player can afford 15k-30k for the old bricks, why cant a player afford 500-3k for a brick or two per flag game?

 

EDIT: As a sidenote, AD hasnt even been used until a few days ago, and the number of players currently using AD can't fill up an entire pub freq.

Edited April 24, 2007 by Choose Profile

[Suicide_Run]

The only reason ppl dislike the one-time brick use is cause we are used to playing w/ unlimited brick spam-age. You just gotta change how you play abit and actually work as a team instead of just 1 dude pulling the team.

 

Btw, you should know that the defenders always has an advantage over the attackers cause of the BL no matter if there was bricks or not.

 

As far as I know, the number of AD users are increasing every few days. Theres about 4-5...im not sure.

[Swift Warrior]

true, AD has little impact right now, i noticed even with antideath, attackers still die easily if the defender is careful, the defender with AD, pretty impossible to get past spam of bullets

[9vgnc3eZ01]

I just lanced until 900+ bounty and an 85k jackpot against a team that (for a while) had AD'ers. No problems on my part. My team didnt need any bricks to protect me, and the team was not made up of "vet's".

 

And btw, this thread is about BRICKS, not AD.

 

 

In the entire flag game only 1 brick was used, and it was by a member of my team to stop a strong rush. This is brilliant and what should be happening. Bricks should be used rarely and effectively.

 

As for pricing issues, if a player can afford 15k-30k for the old bricks, why cant a player afford 500-3k for a brick or two per flag game?

 

EDIT: As a sidenote, AD hasnt even been used until a few days ago, and the number of players currently using AD can't fill up an entire pub freq.

 

You were better than the other team enough to win. With two teams of equal strength, the one with a anti-death rusher WILL win, ALWAYS. I don't care about the bricks, I don't want them unlimited, so don't even think that I want Bricks unlimited. I KNOW bricks are cheap. However, I also KNOW Anti-death SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGES A RESULT OF A FLAG GAME. BUT, IT DOES NOT GUARANTEE IT, as in your case. I don't know how efficent those Anti-death rushers were, but I could show you in game without fail, that if I had Antideath, I would force you to hold your position automatically for maybe 5 sec while you wait for me to respawn. And yes, 5 sec is not that bad, but only if the Anti-death rusher(s), as I realize now, can't use it effectively in the ways that make it cheap. Because if they don't then it's impact is minimal.

 

A.k.a this: If I had Antideath, I would, and I know with a fact, slow your team down much more than without it. We don't see it get abused like bricks because antideath is made to be hard to get, and we reset the game (which keeps it that way) every so often. But if given enough time, until the point where Anti-death is normally used by basers, it will widen the gap plenty to notice. All the non-antideath players won't even TRY to base for a decent jackpot, which is already happening now in many cases.

 

Fact: Antideath is broken. (Or will be, if it isn't used effectively right now, because I will eventually buy it and abuse it like the world is ending, if I continue playing the way I do right now.) I hope that if you won't understand this fact right now, I will force it into you over and over until you do via rushing your team. And I know that if I reach this point I WILL, because it's fact it's broken. Or, if not that, overpowered. I know this as much as a fact as 1+1=2. It is not as easy to prove by a long shot, but what I'm trying to say is just as much a fact.

 

Of course, you will always have have a counter for EVERYTHING I say, and I mean EVERYTHING, including, this sentence, the fact that I mentioned this sentence, or the fact that mentioned that mentioned this sentence, or the fact that I... oh, forget it. I'm wasting my time with facts you won't absorb. You won't see the truth in my words regarding this subject until I prove it in an extremely obvious fashion, multiple times. However, the reason this is even an issue is because such situation are difficult to make, and rare in current Hyperspace. But I will do my best to prove this fact if I get to a point where this is possible.

[Sharpflame]

I just lanced until 900+ bounty and an 85k jackpot against a team that (for a while) had AD'ers. No problems on my part. My team didnt need any bricks to protect me, and the team was not made up of "vet's".

 

And btw, this thread is about BRICKS, not AD.

 

 

In the entire flag game only 1 brick was used, and it was by a member of my team to stop a strong rush. This is brilliant and what should be happening. Bricks should be used rarely and effectively.

 

As for pricing issues, if a player can afford 15k-30k for the old bricks, why cant a player afford 500-3k for a brick or two per flag game?

 

EDIT: As a sidenote, AD hasnt even been used until a few days ago, and the number of players currently using AD can't fill up an entire pub freq.

 

You were better than the other team enough to win. With two teams of equal strength, the one with a anti-death rusher WILL win, ALWAYS. I don't care about the bricks, I don't want them unlimited, so don't even think that I want Bricks unlimited. I KNOW bricks are cheap. However, I also KNOW Anti-death SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGES A RESULT OF A FLAG GAME. BUT, IT DOES NOT GUARANTEE IT, as in your case. I don't know how efficent those Anti-death rushers were, but I could show you in game without fail, that if I had Antideath, I would force you to hold your position automatically for maybe 5 sec while you wait for me to respawn. And yes, 5 sec is not that bad, but only if the Anti-death rusher(s), as I realize now, can't use it effectively in the ways that make it cheap. Because if they don't then it's impact is minimal.

 

A.k.a this: If I had Antideath, I would, and I know with a fact, slow your team down much more than without it. We don't see it get abused like bricks because antideath is made to be hard to get, and we reset the game (which keeps it that way) every so often. But if given enough time, until the point where Anti-death is normally used by basers, it will widen the gap plenty to notice. All the non-antideath players won't even TRY to base for a decent jackpot, which is already happening now in many cases.

 

Fact: Antideath is broken. (Or will be, if it isn't used effectively right now, because I will eventually buy it and abuse it like the world is ending, if I continue playing the way I do right now.) I hope that if you won't understand this fact right now, I will force it into you over and over until you do via rushing your team. And I know that if I reach this point I WILL, because it's fact it's broken. Or, if not that, overpowered. I know this as much as a fact as 1+1=2. It is not as easy to prove by a long shot, but what I'm trying to say is just as much a fact.

 

Of course, you will always have have a counter for EVERYTHING I say, and I mean EVERYTHING, including, this sentence, the fact that I mentioned this sentence, or the fact that mentioned that mentioned this sentence, or the fact that I... oh, forget it. I'm wasting my time with facts you won't absorb. You won't see the truth in my words regarding this subject until I prove it in an extremely obvious fashion, multiple times. However, the reason this is even an issue is because such situation are difficult to make, and rare in current Hyperspace. But I will do my best to prove this fact if I get to a point where this is possible.

 

I agree.

 

I think you got your "it's a fact" point across

[Choose Profile]

You were better than the other team enough to win. With two teams of equal strength, the one with a anti-death rusher WILL win, ALWAYS. I don't care about the bricks, I don't want them unlimited, so don't even think that I want Bricks unlimited. I KNOW bricks are cheap. However, I also KNOW Anti-death SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGES A RESULT OF A FLAG GAME. BUT, IT DOES NOT GUARANTEE IT, as in your case. I don't know how efficent those Anti-death rushers were, but I could show you in game without fail, that if I had Antideath, I would force you to hold your position automatically for maybe 5 sec while you wait for me to respawn. And yes, 5 sec is not that bad, but only if the Anti-death rusher(s), as I realize now, can't use it effectively in the ways that make it cheap. Because if they don't then it's impact is minimal.

 

A.k.a this: If I had Antideath, I would, and I know with a fact, slow your team down much more than without it. We don't see it get abused like bricks because antideath is made to be hard to get, and we reset the game (which keeps it that way) every so often. But if given enough time, until the point where Anti-death is normally used by basers, it will widen the gap plenty to notice. All the non-antideath players won't even TRY to base for a decent jackpot, which is already happening now in many cases.

 

Fact: Antideath is broken. (Or will be, if it isn't used effectively right now, because I will eventually buy it and abuse it like the world is ending, if I continue playing the way I do right now.) I hope that if you won't understand this fact right now, I will force it into you over and over until you do via rushing your team. And I know that if I reach this point I WILL, because it's fact it's broken. Or, if not that, overpowered. I know this as much as a fact as 1+1=2. It is not as easy to prove by a long shot, but what I'm trying to say is just as much a fact.

 

Of course, you will always have have a counter for EVERYTHING I say, and I mean EVERYTHING, including, this sentence, the fact that I mentioned this sentence, or the fact that mentioned that mentioned this sentence, or the fact that I... oh, forget it. I'm wasting my time with facts you won't absorb. You won't see the truth in my words regarding this subject until I prove it in an extremely obvious fashion, multiple times. However, the reason this is even an issue is because such situation are difficult to make, and rare in current Hyperspace. But I will do my best to prove this fact if I get to a point where this is possible.

 

I need only to respond with MAKE ANOTHER ANTIDEATH THREAD AND GET OFF OF A THREAD ABOUT, OF, AND NAMED "BRICKS!"

 

Thank you, and have a nice day.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Choose Profile

[11___________]

You were better than the other team enough to win. With two teams of equal strength, the one with a anti-death rusher WILL win, ALWAYS. I don't care about the bricks, I don't want them unlimited, so don't even think that I want Bricks unlimited. I KNOW bricks are cheap. However, I also KNOW Anti-death SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGES A RESULT OF A FLAG GAME. BUT, IT DOES NOT GUARANTEE IT, as in your case. I don't know how efficent those Anti-death rushers were, but I could show you in game without fail, that if I had Antideath, I would force you to hold your position automatically for maybe 5 sec while you wait for me to respawn. And yes, 5 sec is not that bad, but only if the Anti-death rusher(s), as I realize now, can't use it effectively in the ways that make it cheap. Because if they don't then it's impact is minimal.

 

A.k.a this: If I had Antideath, I would, and I know with a fact, slow your team down much more than without it. We don't see it get abused like bricks because antideath is made to be hard to get, and we reset the game (which keeps it that way) every so often. But if given enough time, until the point where Anti-death is normally used by basers, it will widen the gap plenty to notice. All the non-antideath players won't even TRY to base for a decent jackpot, which is already happening now in many cases.

 

Fact: Antideath is broken. (Or will be, if it isn't used effectively right now, because I will eventually buy it and abuse it like the world is ending, if I continue playing the way I do right now.) I hope that if you won't understand this fact right now, I will force it into you over and over until you do via rushing your team. And I know that if I reach this point I WILL, because it's fact it's broken. Or, if not that, overpowered. I know this as much as a fact as 1+1=2. It is not as easy to prove by a long shot, but what I'm trying to say is just as much a fact.

 

Of course, you will always have have a counter for EVERYTHING I say, and I mean EVERYTHING, including, this sentence, the fact that I mentioned this sentence, or the fact that mentioned that mentioned this sentence, or the fact that I... oh, forget it. I'm wasting my time with facts you won't absorb. You won't see the truth in my words regarding this subject until I prove it in an extremely obvious fashion, multiple times. However, the reason this is even an issue is because such situation are difficult to make, and rare in current Hyperspace. But I will do my best to prove this fact if I get to a point where this is possible.

 

I need only to respond with MAKE ANOTHER ANTIDEATH THREAD AND GET OFF OF A THREAD ABOUT, OF, AND NAMED "BRICKS!"

 

Thank you, and have a nice day.

 

True, but anti-death and bricks are both cheap, maybe change the thread name to "cheap items"

[Kilo]

There really is no need for you to quote the entire huge post that is already just above your post.