Why zones are dying (essay)

[2d spaceship gamer]

This essay is not about 17th in particular. I'm sure there are other reasons why this, as any other zone, gradually lose their population . But at least one serious is the overzealousness of those who create the zone to make the "perfect zone", as they see it.

 

Many admins fail to realize what makes their zone popular. What makes Continuum, in the first place, popular. Their fail to realize the difference between a small, old game like Continuum with a small dedicated core, and a big new releaze like Halo 2.

 

Some of the most common techniques that end up backfiring:

 

- "Balance at all cost" principle

- Nerfing ships and other settings

- Overlistening to whiners

- Trying to imitate other games

- Overemphasize teamwork, dynamics, and any other "hot idea"

- Overemphasize graphics and other media

- Change for the sake of change

 

Subspace is not about the ultimate balance or ultimate teamwork. It's about having fun. It's about preserving it's charm and preserving the nostalgic spirit that keeps veterans here and not sends them off elsewhere.

 

BALANCE/NERFING/WHINERS:

 

Sometimes, your zone is unbalanced in one way or anothers. THAT'S FINE. No need to change it just for the sake of balancing it. You may lose more than you gain. A good analogy for 17th was, long time ago, the removing of the ICBM weasel and replacing it with a more traditional ship. I'm sure you did it because people were complaing "omgwtfbbq get rid of that stupid wizzel with cloak and 1-hit kill". So you did. But by doing so, you ruined the fun for others, not just those who liked the weasel, but the community in general who were used to the weasel the way it is, who, while sometimes not realizing it, were enjoying the challenge and uncertainty the weasel brought. Sure, they often cursed it, and sometimes even whined about it, but once removed, people suddenly lost their "favorite enemy", and felt a lot of the point about the zone gameplay was lost.

 

I roll my eyes when I see Trench Wars following suit now with nerfing the Lev. They will step in the same beartrap. They may please a few whiners, but those who whine will tend to whine anyways, they'll just find something else to whine about, while a large community of those who enjoyed LT-ing, or hunting LT's, will lose a challenge, and gameplay will become boring for them.

 

IMITATING OTHER GAMES:

 

Many zone admins fall for the carrot of "modernizing" Continuum to catch up with newer games. THAT DOES NOT WORK. I repeat, THAT DOES NOT WORK. People do NOT play Continuum because they want the hottest graphics, sounds, teamplay elements. It does not matter how much you modernize Continuum, how much you'll invest in making new graphics. Guess what, the graphics are going to suck no matter how much you modernize them. And that's fine! Those who play Continuum do not give a !@#$%^&* about the crappy graphics or the decades-old concept of a 2d spaceship game (see my name). If they did, they would not be playing Continuum, and no amount of "modernization" would bring them back.

 

People play it because they like it the way it is. There will not be many players who like it this way, but your changes will not bring in fresh blood. All they will do is alienate existing veterans. You may think its fancy to have supercool 3d graphics. But, apart from the fact that 99% of those graphics are poorly done and look stupid, that's not what people play for. 3d gamers will NOT suddenly pick up Continuum because you changed 2d sprites to 3d sprites. They'll stick with Unreal Tournament and Halo 2. You may think its fancy to make the game have an "uber team spirit", but you never realized many players LIKE milking with flags, duelling, spawnkilling, and doing other "lame" stuff. Take that away, and people quit, period. Either to another zone, or from SS altogether. And no, you will NOT get a replacement. Those who want the ultimate tactical teamwork game will go play Battlefield 2 or the like, not Continuum.

 

Do NOT try to compete with Halo 2, Unreal Tournament, or Conter-Strike. You'll fail. Miserably. Stick with what works, with what makes Continuum unique. Let players play the way they want to play, not the way you want them to play. If the majority of people like mindless spawnkilling, or flag fraying, do NOT stamp that out because you find that lame. Sometimes allowing people to be lame is the best thing you can do, because laming is do !@#$%^&* fun!

 

CHANGE FOR THE SAKE OF CHANGE:

 

If your zone has been around long, and had a stable (even if small) population, that means players like it the way it is. It doesn't matter if YOU think your new upgrade is so friggin cool and will make the zone much better. Think about whether your players will agree with you. For most part, they don't. If they stay at the zone, is because that's how they are used to play. It doesn't matter if you think the gameplay is unbalanced. It doesn't matter if you think the map sucks. Your players' presense is the ultimate seal of approval that the zone works the way it is.

 

Sometimes the best way to preserve a zone's popularity is just don't screw with it. Change is not always good. If it's not broken, don't fix it, as simple as that.

 

---

 

Of course, I realize that's not the only reason, and sometimes not the most important one, as to why zones die out. Sometimes it's about the zone staff giving up on maintaining the zone or keeping players interested by hosting events and such. Sometimes players leave for another zone. There are many reasons. But very often I see zones start to decline because of admins deciding they want to bring about change that simply wasn't called for.

 

One thing to always remember: Vast majority of Continuum players are veterans. The turnout rate is very low, not many new people come, and not many old people leave. But if your changes cause old players to leave, it will be VERY difficult for you to find replacement.

 

Something to think about.

[L.C.]

The problem is, SVS doesn't interest players these days. There is Trench Wars, Extreme Games, and Death Star Battle, (is Metal Gear valid? I always thought it was made after Metal Gear Solid) but players either don't like them because they're "slow paced" or that they suck or whatever. I don't know all the reasons, but I know definately that many people look down at SVS (mainly because its slow paced and icky).

 

I love SVS. I used to hate it, but after forcing myself to play a bit more with it, I can see why its so fun.

 

EDIT :: Arg, printer isn't hooked up. I guess I'll have to read it sometime later.

[»freakmonger]

I agree with a lot that you said. Change has to be a good change. Not just for the sake of changing. A lot of zones make this mistake with maps because they give in to the whining 12 year olds.

 

One thing I would like to add to your list is changing Server IP's. Zones skip around and change hosts for various reasons but this is a BIG mistake in my book. You would be suprised at how many players you end up losing because of this. Zones need to do their homework, find a good host and stick with it unless something REALLY bad is happening with the host and you HAVE to change. This should be a last resort move.

 

I also enjoy SVS zones. Always have and always will. The first zone I ever played was Dueling Arizona and then went straight to the SVS League back when it was a permission only zone. The thing about SVS now is that the SVS population is dying very fast. SVS is at a handicap with this because its hard for a SVS zone to draw players from 'super ship' zones. But it is fairly easy for a fast pace zone to draw players from another fast paced zone. So because of this, SVS is losing a lot of players. Take Powerball Zone for an example. I remember about 2 years ago it would get up to players at times. Now its lucky to get 50. I stopped playing powerball when they started having all these other leagues within it. So i'm not sure what killed it but *I* think the change to ASSS wasn't needed and might have been the final nail in the coffen. But I really shouldn't say this because I'm not sure why the change was made. Was the change made just because ASSS is the new and 'best' thing on the market? I don't think that was the case, not as long as Ekted had a say in it. But that is another issue, Ekted has left the "PB Council" as of recently.

[L.C.]

How true that essay is... Word for word.

 

This is possibly quite why some of the older non-SVS (styled too, I should add) are dying or have lower populations than before. First zone that comes to my mind is SSC* Dragonball Z. There were and still are so many changes. I liked it better back in around 2000 to 2002 (maybe 2001 instead of 2002 even). Many players will agree. Pros got newbed by bombs, they complained and got their wish. No wonder.

 

And you know what too? Some people just won't listen to this. They disagree and stick to their opinion all the way, but this isn't about winning someone over - its about whether they realize how the logic in all this works! SSC Dragonball Z used to be great, but now it sucks. I'll admit it: I am a high sysop of SSC Dragonball Z, and even admit that its current conditions suck. I don't care if I get fired over this piece of text, because either way that'll just prove something that they would regret.

 

Non-SSC zones give up way too early. I made an oath to myself to keep Jackpot SVS alive as long as Continuum is around (atleast I'll try). There probably won't be too many changes going with the zone. I've already restored so much of the old Jackpot Zone properties (while a few left over to do or mimic).

 

The other thing is about ASSS. Is it even convenient or right to switch over to ASSS? Remember the phrase "use the right tool/language for the right job." When it comes to C++ vs Java, which one is better? Neither, because it depends what you're wanting to do in the first place (mostly).

 

I think that the mainstream zones are successful because these "anti-SVS" players have nothing better to do. They want to play modern. Infact, do they really want to play Continuum? Somehow it doesn't add up. They get bored of it after a while. There's always someone to be owned by in SVS. If you were to take the entire current population of active Subspace players and replace their computers with brand new $3000 computers and high speed internet, do you think they would continue playing Continuum or move on?

 

I'll be honest myself. If I still had high speed internet / never moved to a place that has no internet or dialup, I would probably be in some 3D Gaming community. But who knows, I've always looked to Subspace and its community for much of my background buildup.

[Telson]

The Game will eventually die off. zone after zone.

Its all about the gameplay and eyecandy. I spent 2 years of my life creating the eyecandy for Subspace and 17th Parallel. Everything you can "see" in this game i could and did create.

We developers are a dying breed. Its the gfx and bot developers who kept the game going for so long and now we are leaving. The game is losing its talented developers. Yes the game is outdated, but most of us dont want to waste our talents on a game with no apparent future.

 

and like L.C. said the only reason i stuck with this game so long was because of my dialup modem

[SeVeR]

pfft, telson you're such a noob.

[MadGaz]

alas

[jacob hunter!]

Don't !@#$%^&*ing give up.

[Tiq]

Make love to me, attraction.

[Trip']

Very true. Especially about 17th's ICBM weasel. I hated that !@#$%^&*ized ship, but it was my "favorite nme".......little !@#$%^&*hole.

 

But nonetheless, one zone is gaining pop while the rest are losing it. And this has been a trend since the zone first came out a few months ago. The name is Fusion. Its a ctf zone that has a strong core of players and a great community. Basic gameplay, basing, no !@#$%^&*holes like ice returns in it either. And a great staff as well. The zone is still growing gathering new players and events. Maybe we all can take a few hints from this zone on how to keep the other zones from dying out or losing pop.

 

The main thing I can see is that the staff there is very interactive with the general pop. One of the zones creators, JEP/Blazen, is there almost all the time taking part in things and helping new comers out. So other zone staffs, take a hint from this guy. INTERACT WITH THE PLAYERS!!

[Sass]

Your article seems to make a lot of sense. Thanks for your thoughts 2D. Fusion can kiss my !@#$%^&*.

[MikeTheNose]

Thanks Trip, I really appreciate the informational no brainer.

[Incomplete]

!@#$%^&* fusion. Your just advertising for them. 17th has been looking a little more active recently, I've just been talking to people in other zones (not saying where i am) and they just turn up and try the zone out.

[The Cubbies]

Funny that a few of the most popular zones I see in the zone list right now are Metal Gear, Halo, and Hockey Zone. Why would you be so firm against mimicking other games when it's obviously working for many zones?

[Cancer+]

I think that the dying of zones has nothing to do with Subspace/Continuum, but it does with other games.

 

 

How many people actually want to play a 2d spaceship game that has the same objectives and gets boring when you can play games like WoW and F.E.A.R.

 

Sure 10 years ago this game was popular, but that is because people couldn't play any other games with their !@#$%^&*ty systems. From there it got popular but then the computers started getting better and could play better mmog than subspace.

 

Unless some miracle happens, Continuum is going down. This is pessimistic either, it just being realistic.

[Sass]

Metal Gear and Hockey are both very very well organized/designed zones. Same goes for the other big zones. Maybe there is a trend?? (Never cared for Halo)

[jacob hunter!]

Make love to me, attraction.

 

hmnmm I might.

[Tiq]

Thanks Trip, I really appreciate the informational no brainer.

 

I miss this...there needs to be more MikeTheNose activity in the forums. Don't be a stranger, fella.

 

Make love to me, attraction.

 

hmnmm I might.

 

num num num

[Telson]

The zone is dead, simply because anyone with common sense gave up on it.

 

The top List:

Elite One

Fujin Frost

Enterprise25

Vegita

Vile Requiem

MMaverick

Telson

JimTheChin

Noriaki

Caress

Pernille

Nurples

Rifleman

 

and a few more..... This zone forum has been dead for 2 weeks now. Atleast with relevant topics

 

Hanging around in 17th is like stalking an ex-girlfriend, let go and move on

[Emblazon]

The zone is dead, simply because anyone with common sense gave up on it.

 

The top List:

Elite One

Fujin Frost

Enterprise25

Vegita

Vile Requiem

MMaverick

Telson

JimTheChin

Noriaki

Caress

Pernille

Nurples

Rifleman

 

and a few more..... This zone forum has been dead for 2 weeks now. Atleast with relevant topics

 

Hanging around in 17th is like stalking an ex-girlfriend, let go and move on

you forgot me !@#$%^&*hole. and im not in this 'a few more' category. anyway.. whats happening with 17th? im sure delic will blame his lack of progress on bots he cant seem to get anyone to make.. bleh.. maybe i should be like he has been with the past hsysops and har!@#$%^&* and criticize his every move. i mean.. its the least i can do, i owe him that much.. -_-

[Delic]

pernille and noriaki are working with me. Vile and Ent are willing and I've been meaning to talk with Jim who's been active in DSB.

It's too bad that those who are capable and have time to help out, simply lost interest. But I guess that's just the way things go.

17th has been dead multiple times in the past, and been brought back to life. Granted it hasn't been dead for this long before, but there's reasons for that and that still doesn't make the conditions very different from past times.

 

I'm sick and tired of hearing people telling others to give up and move on time and time again.

 

You gave up, you move on. Don't tell me what to do. I will keep working on the revival. You don't want to help me? That's fine, I didn't expect anyone to do that in the first place. But don't tell me to give up before I've even executed my plan. I've been lucky enough to receive some support from noriaki and a guy from TW that I don't even know and now pernille - and that is all, and that is the only reason why things are going so slow.

Lack of progress? I'd say we've progressed a lot. I would just like to plan and complete things before I do anything rather than do as certain other SysOps who prefer to rush things which in the end proves to be a mistake.

Emblazon, all you can criticize me for is not banning someone who used a bot to spawn into an arena with corrupted settings, causing the zone to constantly crash.

In an arena owned by YOUR name, with a bot name YOU had the password to, with the bot matching YOUR MID and IP. That is all you can blame me for, because I haven't really done anything else because of the reasons mentioned, I want to prepare as many things as possible first.

And you have my word that I will not ban you for expressing your opinion as you banned me for expressing mine - which you admitted was abuse of power.

I could also go to other zones and try to bribe random players with a Staff position as you and Cord did, but I know that that would not help us in the long run.

I will stick to working on what we've been working on before I launch it no matter how long it has to take. It's not like time is an issue. After the mistakes made by the past upper staff we don't really have anything to lose. I would rather re!@#$%^&*ure that we get everything right than launch an incomplete project.

As I said before, I don't have a lot of people working with me. You did have people working actively with you. Maybe I'm more picky about who I choose to work with. I don't like working with complete strangers even though I've been forced to do it one time, but I prefer to take the safe route and hire people I know are capable and reliable.

 

Caress was positive when I showed her what I had in mind for 17th some months back. Think what you like about her, but that's more than enough recognition I need.

I called about 5 players I know from other zones over a couple of times. In a short period of time we got 13 people playing the first day and 19 the other day.

A lot of people have said that they like what we've been doing and that they will play it once it's ready. I see many ex-17th players in other zones very often.

Despite of having far from ideal working conditions, I still see a lot of possibilities which I intend to take advantage of.

I can honestly tell you that I'll be surprised if I don't manage to get the least amount of people required to have a game going in pub every day - but I don't want to do that until we have completed what is in the works. And believe it or not but I am working on it everyday in one way or another.

 

-Delic

 

17th Parallel Head SysOp

17th Parallel player since early '01 and counting.

 

Oo-AERA-oO

Epion

Feroce

[The Cubbies]

I'm confused about what you are saying Delic. Which projects (besides Complex) were prematurely introduced? It seems like you are criticizing other staff for keeping the zone population above 1. How does that ruin the zone?

 

Now I will quote you a couple times: "You did have people working actively with you. Maybe I'm more picky about who I choose to work with. I don't like working with complete strangers even though I've been forced to do it one time" AND THEN - " I've been lucky enough to receive some support from noriaki and a guy from TW that I don't even know." Seems incongruous. Especially since the staff list when emb was HSysop are all known people ( I saved a copy of moderate.txt before we quit).

 

Anyway stop hating, that's the point. The zone's average population is 1.5 according to the graphs. Until that number goes up, the zone is dead and there's no point for people to go there. It's sad, I think many of us will miss it, but it's also the truth. That being the case, I hope it works out for you Delic. It would be nice to see people there again.

[Tiq]

I agree wholeheartedly with Cubs. All I've been seeing is talk, and whenever I decide to check out 17th, I see the pop at zero. So to me, this is all talk and no action. Less talk more action. It's easy to say "I've got ideas", but it's harder to act on those ideas. So act!

[Delic]

Heh, well to me that just shows how little you know about what you're talking about, although the obvious truth is that there usually aren't any people in the zone.

Less talk more action? Okay then tell all those people to stop asking questions > More action? I repeat, I've been working on 17th basically everyday I've been online in one way or another.

I haven't advertised the zone yet because I want to complete what we've been working on before I do. I did advertise it a couple of times to run a few tests - in which we got 13 and 19 people playing.

It just goes to show that it's not impossible to get people to start playing again.

 

"You did have people working actively with you. Maybe I'm more picky about who I choose to work with. I don't like working with complete strangers even though I've been forced to do it one time" AND THEN - " I've been lucky enough to receive some support from noriaki and a guy from TW that I don't even know."

 

Actually the second quote came first and the first one second. But however you want to put it, I was referring to the person who modified TWCore for Control. I simply stated that I prefer to work with people I know are reliable even though I've had to get someone I don't know to help me with that bot. So I don't see how that's incongruous.

And I didn't blame anyone for prematurely introducing any project. I was explaining why what I've been planning to do is taking some time.

The staff list from when Emb was Head SysOp were only known people? I'd say half of them or more were completely unknown at the time they were hired.

 

You will see results from what I've been doing, I can guarantee you that. I never denied that Emblazon and Cord got the zone to be active for awhile, but obviously they did something wrong, or missed something. I'm just trying to do something that will last rather than something that will get the zone to be alive for a month or two and then die again.

 

From my point of view, 17th Parallel including the website is a very big mess that will take some time to fix.

I've told you what I'm working on, I've told you why it's taking so long and I've told you why there usually aren't any people in 17th.

 

So that'll be all for now. If you are confused about what I'm saying, maybe try to read it again before you reply, I'm sure you won't have much trouble understanding.

[The Cubbies]

How do you figure they were doing something wrong? They took a zone that had 0 population (as it is now) and got 10v10+ games going a few times a week. That's not failing. And here's the staff list.

 

Emblazon, Cord, Cubs

LarryTheHamster, nahtaiveL gniK, The Maurauder

ER>DriverX, ER>Fruity, ER>Creemy, ER>Lyra

 

The only one I hadn't known before hand was creemy who by the way was one of your first staffers. Take off your goggles Delic.