Must Grab PriitK's Attention for Only a Few Moments

[L.C.]

From: Me

To: Valve Technical Support

Subject: Continuum (Subspace) to Free Games Listing

Question: FYI: If I already submitted this question' date=' sorry about that. Wasn't sure since for some reason submitted questions aren't listed anywhere under 'My Stuff.' If I did submit this question already, then my bad.

 

http://www.subspace.net/

Continuum (Subspace) is a 100% freeware game, known to be the longest living massive multiplayer online game in existence. On behalf of the Subspace community (http://www.ssforum.net/ for the community headquarter forums) I would like to involve Continuum (Subspace) with Steam in your Free Games/Stuff listing to help spread it. We very much would be greatful if this would be a doable favor, and might bring a few new customers.

 

As for downloading the game through Steam, I'm not the person in the community that is in charge of its installer/release files, but I can direct you to the person (his name is PoLiX on http://www.ssforum.net/) who should be spoken to about this. If the forums are down, the headquarters are at http://www.sscentral.com/. =)

 

I/we hope to establish a successful listing in your fabulous Steam. =D

 

From: Valve Technical Support

To: Me

Subject: Continuum (Subspace) to Free Games Listing

Response: !@#$%^&*o' date='

 

I'm sorry but we are only able to provide technical support.[/quote']

 

From: Me

To: Valve Technical Support

Subject: Continuum (Subspace) to Free Games Listing

Response: Would you be able to direct me / point me to the right people of Valve to go to regarding this question then?

 

From: Valve Technical Support

To: Me

Subject: Continuum (Subspace) to Free Games Listing

Response: !@#$%^&*o' date='

 

The person that owns the rights with the game would need to contact contact@valvesoftware.com.[/quote']

 

Steam @ http://www.steampowered.com/.

 

I believe not only should this be one of the objectives of the community to achieve this opportunity, but a must-accomplish high priority. PriitK's attention needs to be grabbed in some way - this opportunity cannot be thrown away. If anything I'd ask right now, it would be to atleast get Continuum listed in Valve's (Steam) Free Games listing.

[Lupper]

polix can pretend to be owner of the game. i dont see why not. its not like they ask for verification or anything.

[SVS]

Nevermind the fact that Priitk doesn't own the rights to the game either.

[»SD>Big]

getting anyone other then whoever legaly owns ss (does priitk really own the rights, i keep hearind arguments on both sides) to try and register it is a bad idea, cause if they find out, you just shot yourself in the foot.

[SVS]

getting anyone other then whoever legaly owns ss (does priitk really own the rights, i keep hearind arguments on both sides) to try and register it is a bad idea, cause if they find out, you just shot yourself in the foot.

 

Well whoever is telling you he does is wrong. He doesn't.

[»1587200]

Who does?

[Lupper]

interestingly enough, polls show that subspace promotion is ineffective by advertising sites.

 

http://www.ssdownloads.com/index.php?act=poll

 

Word of Mouth seems to be the best soluition at the moment.

 

The fact that more people randomly stumble upon it than people who find out about it through advertising is quite a bit embarr!@#$%^&*ing.

[L.C.]

How well advertised was Continuum? Little? A lot?

 

Do you have any clue how much player/population traffic goes through Steam? Although it may do little, it would be really nice if Subspace (Continuum) was listed in the Free Games listing.

[rootbear75]

from looking on it as a player, it would seem that the SSC Council owns the right to the game more than anyone.

They control the most number of zones, and if they all of a sudden dissappeared, SS as we know it would vanish.

[»doc flabby]

The fact that more people randomly stumble upon it than people who find out about it through advertising is quite a bit embarr!@#$%^&*ing.

 

not really considering the advertising budget is 0$

[MikeTheNose]

This game doesn't have any advertising campaigns. None of the programmers or server admins owns the rights to it. It's not freeware, it's abandonware.

[»1587200]

if they all of a sudden dissappeared, SS as we know it would vanish.

na, this game is player ran and admined. As long as people want to play it, it will never vanish.

[X`terrania]

We can't miss out on this.

[rootbear75]

if they all of a sudden dissappeared, SS as we know it would vanish.

na, this game is player ran and admined. As long as people want to play it, it will never vanish.

 

i said "as we know it"

it'll still be around but it will be soo much changed cause you dont have a centralized player database anymore.

there will be a whole bunch of many independent servers that communication across the zones will be near impossible.

[Hoch]

getting anyone other then whoever legaly owns ss (does priitk really own the rights, i keep hearind arguments on both sides) to try and register it is a bad idea, cause if they find out, you just shot yourself in the foot.

 

Well whoever is telling you he does is wrong. He doesn't.

That is not an entirely accurate statement. If you want to know why read on.

 

...

 

The following is an !@#$%^&*essment of UK and European Community copyright law and

should not be relied on for other legal systems, save for like common law systems.

Also, I really do not have time to thoroughly explain this area of the law, but if someone

wants to pony up the dough to meet my hourly rate I will happily do it for you! :-P

 

There are many problems that exist in establishing who 'owns' the program Continuum.

Saying who 'owns the rights' is not technically the best way to go about the situation

but I will start there.

 

First and foremost, Continuum is a computer program. Computer programs are considered

to be literary works. This view has been adopted under the Computer Programs Directive

(1991) following an analysis of the Berne Convention (1886). The basic framework in the UK

is the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, (Part 1) as amended by various European

Community directives. Specifically, computer programs are protected section 3(1)( of the

CDPA 1988.

 

Copyright is essentially a negative right which prevents others from making copies of the

work of an author. Copyright does not subsist, and consequently protection afforded, unless

it has been (1) created by a qualifying person; (2) first published in a qualifying country; and

(3) transmitted from a qualifying country. For the sake of agrument assume that (2) and (3)

are resolved, but that (1) is not (see below).

 

In order to be protected, a work must filfil a requirement of originality (section 1 of the CDPA).

This simply means that the work must originate from an author as it source and creator. In

other words, that it is not copied.

 

Copyright protects the original skill, labour and effort of an author (Ladbroke (Football) v.

William Hill [1964]. It is not the information itself but the use that the author has made of

it in the creation of an original work.

 

And now onto the bit which everyone seems particularly concerned with, that is, who owns it.

 

Section 9(1) of the CDPA 1988 states that the author of a work is the one who created it.

Section 11 provides that copyright normally belongs to the person who created the work,

i.e. the author. Crucially, as compared to other forms of intellectual property, copyright

protection arises automatically, without the need for foramility or registration. Pay careful

attention to the last word in that sentence. I say this because people incorrectly assume

that they have to put the internationally recognised copyright symbol "©" on their works, or

even worse that the work is thus automatically protected. The adoption of the "©" symbol is

required for copyright protection in a country that only follows the Universial Copyright

Convention 1952 (UCC).

 

So, have we gotten any further to answering the question as to where the rights of Continuum

are vested? Not really. But, there is important bit of information that helps those that say

Priitk. Go to the main screen of Continuum, click on Help, and then go to About. At the bottom

you will see the following:

 

"Copyright © 2001-2003 PriitK and Mr. Ekted"

 

What does this prove or show? Well, that some person (persons really, in which case we

would be talking about co-ownership) named PriitK has indicated that he (they) copyright the

program and have added the © symbol. That line says and indicates nothing more. However,

the implications are that said person(s) have announced that they are the 'authors' of the work.

Whether or not protection subsists would require a great deal more analysis.

 

The moral of the story is there is no person here that can say whether or not PriitK or anyone

else 'owns' Continuum. It is both a question of fact and law, and on the former there is simply

not enough to say either way.

 

 

-Hoch

[»doc flabby]

if they all of a sudden dissappeared, SS as we know it would vanish.

na, this game is player ran and admined. As long as people want to play it, it will never vanish.

 

i said "as we know it"

it'll still be around but it will be soo much changed cause you dont have a centralized player database anymore.

there will be a whole bunch of many independent servers that communication across the zones will be near impossible.

i think interbiller comunication is technically possible. it would need coding tho, and complicate things a bit.

[SVS]

[EDIT: Removed entire quote of Hoch's post -Maverick]

 

 

The only problem Hoch is you are wrong from the start due to one simple fact. Continuum is a program that acts as a client allowing people to play the game Subspace. Priitk MIGHT and I mean MIGHT be able to argue that he owns Continuum (my personal belief is that most of Continuum is a hacked version of Subspace which means he doesn't own it, you can't hack a prior work and make minor changes and claim it as your own) but regardless of that, it doesn't matter. The game we play is Subspace, the client we use doesn't matter. Almost every zone is using server software called subgame, server software written by VIE and owned by whatever holding company now has ownership of Subspace. Not to mention all of the graphics, sounds, etc. Just because we "act" like we own this game doesn't make it true and the biggest mistake anyone in this community could make us to try to "act" like they own Subspace outside of this community.

 

It isn't a good idea to take any action that could possibly devalue the property being held by a holding company. Especially on the flawed arguement that since Priitk hacked the Subspace client to make a knock off he has somehow made the game his. How could you say that with a straight face Hoch... I mean seriously.

[Hoch]

The only problem Hoch is you are wrong from the start due to one simple fact. Continuum is a program that acts as a client allowing people to play the game Subspace.

I have already established that Continuum is a computer program. It is a question of fact and there

can be little doubt that it is. SVS, you yourself have indicated that Continuum is a program. That very

fact alone, in law, makes it a literary work and you can read the rest of what I wrote.

 

You cannot, in law, argue that Continuum merely acts as a go between by allowing various external

connections to operate off that protocol whilst being filtered through another program. It forms part

of the consitutent whole. This is what the legislation says and this is how the (UK) courts have inter-

preted it. The fact that those external connections can only operate because of the Continuum program

refutes any notion that you can separate the two. Therefore, once the work has been identified it is

enough for quantification to be made out.

 

Now as far as the rest of what you wrote SVS, that is, the subgame, the only argument that I can

think of off the top of my head is one of unauthorised use of a copyrighted work. One might try to

make out a claim for infringement, but only the author or original owner of the work can bring such

a claim. You can try giving VIE a call

 

I am merely stating what the law on copyright is in the UK and the European Community.

Whether or not you choose to accept it is not my concern. I am not even concerned by it :-) But that is

the law, albeit a brief explanation. You can try to argue over the question of fact, but be warned the case

law is against you

 

 

-Hoch

[L.C.]

the only problem Hoch is you are wrong from the start due to one simple fact. Continuum is a program that acts as a client allowing people to play the game Subspace.

I think what you're trying to point out is that instead of submitting Continuum, we go back a step and submit Subspace v1.34 (or v1.35). In order to submit Continuum, we would need authority from PriitK or Mr.Ekted.

 

Now as far as the rest of what you wrote SVS, that is, the subgame, the only argument that I can

think of off the top of my head is one of unauthorised use of a copyrighted work. One might try to

make out a claim for infringement, but only the author or original owner of the work can bring such

a claim. You can try giving VIE a call

I think PriitK talked VIE into allowing him (and giving him some of the resources in regards to billing and Subgame2) to pursue this and to go ahead, probably because VIE realized they were on the verge of bankruptcy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[rootbear75]

oh my head

[Dav]

there has to be someone that can authorize this, cant any SSC ops do it at all?

[L.C.]

I'm thinking Mr. Ekted, PriitK, or even Ghostship. Polix might be able to do it. It's really up to the "big boys" in this political phase of Subspace to finish it out.

[SVS]

I'm thinking Mr. Ekted, PriitK, or even Ghostship. Polix might be able to do it. It's really up to the "big boys" in this political phase of Subspace to finish it out.

 

No one can authorize this as no one in this community owns this game. If Priitk were here he would say exactly the same !@#$%^&* thing. You can't hack a client, rename it and then claim you own the entire game. It is a good fantasy that Hoch appearently bought into but that is all it is, a fantasy. Doing anything to devalue the holding companies property would be stupid as it would give them an incentive to have our servers shutdown. Right now we aren't devaluing their property, if we start proclaiming ownership and undertaken actions as the appearent owner of the property that will change and it is a gamble to say that the holding company will ignore it.

 

Also "polix" can authorize it? Wtf, all polix does is run a forum. Not that it isn't hard work... dealing with you !@#$%^&* hats on a daily basis.

[PoLiX]

Since my name keeps coming up in this, I'll say this.

 

Me and Swift's stand is that even if this game dies, our site will not. The game is going to go down whatever path it wants, but our only main care and focus is this site. We both gave up anything we had to do with administration or "power" as you might call it, inside the game, and honestly, I know I speak for myself, as well as swift, when I say we want nothing to do with it anymore.

 

Dealing with getting this site re-organized is a job in itself. The major clean up I just did was an 8hr job, maybe more even. All the errors I ran into, the issues, the bugs, etc. But all is whiped, clean, and fresh. Everything is back up and running fine, and in some cases, better than before.

 

-------

 

Onto the subject of doing this period. It'd be a very bad idea to bring attention to us in this big way again. Yes, it would be nice to get population back, but we are going to have to find other means beyond going BIG on 1 site. Just advertise over tons of little sites, and let people know. If we go big, and whoever owns Subspace notices us, and wants to maybe take advantage of our new found player base/fame, than we might just end up !@#$%^&* !@#$%^&*ing ourselves more than helping.

 

Cause as SVS has said once or twice: We still don't know 100% if Continuum isn't just a hacked Subspace client. We all know the capabilities Priit has; just look at Subgame or what he did with the Subbill for more proof of that. So it is very possible we could just screw ourselves over more than help.

[Hoch]

My only purpose in making my post was to try and show that those that claim either Y person owns

or has the rights or does not to Continuum simply cannot be said. The reason for this is that what

little information there is available does not categorical or with any great precision point to yes or no.

It is, as I have said previously, a question of fact and there are far to few of them. Determine this and

you can (easily) plug in the legal framework above.

 

However, one can draw conclusions from what is available, but the argument could just as easily swing

the other way. The best thing to do is to say, "I don't really know," because that is the truth of the matter.

No one here knows and it would be false and/or misleading to suggest otherwise.

 

Meet my hourly rate and I'll tell ya though <_<

 

 

-Hoch