Thirdspace Teaser

[MillenniumMan]

N E way, here's a little teaser. Expect the alpha 1.0 public release soon.

 

New name, THIRDSPACE

 

[Samapico]

woooooot

[Drake7707]

nice, i hope 3D is actually playable with a game like continuum (i mean, its another axis to keep in mind and way harder to aim) (unless the renderings are in 3D, but you are on a fixed height)

 

I'll start begging for a mesh of the ships now

[L.C.]

The graphics, name, and interface looks ugly, the ships look fine. By no means am I intending this as offensive. Why not go with the flow of the modern Subspace graphics and interface? :S

 

Just an idea/suggestion - I think you should add 2 global spotlights (like the lighting in the Subspace v1.34 menu) with glares on certain parts of the ships that behave accordingly with the lights.

[»Maverick]

Topic split from 3d models of subspace ships?

[Witchie NL]

Quantum Buffer Storage? ehm ok? Well graphix isnt an isue. The main concern is the game core. which seems to develop nice.

Good job. keep on working! Cant wait for the release.

[Dav]

this is still going? I thought it was abandoned long ago.

 

 

Post the alpha when its done ill be willing to give it a test

[MillenniumMan]

Samapico Posted Yesterday, 10:39 PM

 

woooooot

 

HUGS SAMAPICO

 

Drake7707 Posted Today, 12:12 AM

nice, i hope 3D is actually playable with a game like continuum (i mean, its another axis to keep in mind and way harder to aim) (unless the renderings are in 3D, but you are on a fixed height)

 

I'll start begging for a mesh of the ships now

 

The original desigin for the game was in full 3 axis like vendetta. Unfortunately it was too hard for some to deal with and they kept pulling their hair out at being noobed. "Deerrrr.... look at de radar, which way did e go which way did e go?"

 

L.C. Posted Today, 02:08 AM

The graphics, name, and interface looks ugly, the ships look fine. By no means am I intending this as offensive. Why not go with the flow of the modern Subspace graphics and interface? :S

 

 

Some consessions have to be made in order to get a working game out of this. I still haven't been able to get a hold of Warhunter or T4 with their old contacts, I've had to do most of this myself since pulling it out of mothballs a couple months ago. If you have better icons available or something, plz post em.

 

Just an idea/suggestion - I think you should add 2 global spotlights (like the lighting in the Subspace v1.34 menu) with glares on certain parts of the ships that behave accordingly with the lights.

 

I have an idea too. Fly really close to the sun in a warbird and get a dark tan! Excuse me, I'm blossoming...

On a more serious note, I had 2 global lights in the old arena which gavedecent objective lighting (light side/dark side)

 

 

Maverick Posted Today, 11:52 AM

Topic split from 3d models of subspace ships?

 

Partialy, but since I was getting ready to make an announcement in the next couple weeks when I noticed the 3D models post, I figure wth.

 

Witchie NL Posted Today, 04:37 PM

Quantum Buffer Storage? ehm ok? Well graphix isnt an isue. The main concern is the game core. which seems to develop nice.

Good job. keep on working! Cant wait for the release.

 

Thx, I also managed to get the framerate to increase with the newer models. The old ones had around 3000 polys per ship, the newer ones have 900-1900 polies. The quantum storage buffer is a joke, like figuring out where the !@#$%^&* all those L3 bombs the levi had are carried, or how a gun never runs out of ammo.

 

Dav Posted Today, 05:23 PM

this is still going? I thought it was abandoned long ago.

 

Post the alpha when its done ill be willing to give it a test.

 

Not abandoned, just backburnered. Glad to see you're still here Dav.

 

 

Now for some free drugs...

From the POV of the warbird !@#$%^&*pit.

Warbird Vs. Weasel (ok, I had noone else to play with )

Closeups of one of the rendered models, the Weasel.

[Witchie NL]

Thx, I also managed to get the framerate to increase with the newer models. The old ones had around 3000 polys per ship, the newer ones have 900-1900 polies. The quantum storage buffer is a joke, like figuring out where the !@#$%^&* all those L3 bombs the levi had are carried, or how a gun never runs out of ammo.

 

Well how about Plasma guns? or Proton bombs? (Star Trek) they consist of pure energy. So doesnt take any space .

[Dav]

as sad as this may be to say I think I have no choice...

 

 

Photon torpedoes are in a finite number and its a big issue in many voyager episodes.

 

i think it would be cool to see a finite number of shots then you have a delay whilst plasma cannon/ bullets/ whatever are recharged before you can fire again.

[Witchie NL]

i never said it wasnt cool. Its cool indeed!

[Drake7707]

will it ever go open source? looking forward to test

[MillenniumMan]

will it ever go open source? looking forward to test

 

 

Big debate there.

 

A couple of issues on leaving it closed this are:

 

Security of the client/server

 

Lameness of some of the amater mods that could kill the game quicker (poly count or bad polys can kill framerate making the game suck)

 

Some dumb!@#$%^&* staring at things like this for hours and going WTF is that?:

 

;**********

;COLLISIONS

;**********

 

;the following section is executed only if a collision with

;another element (set in the Collision Map), is detected

;NOTE: collisions with weapons (ID=2) are ignored

If Collision(element,-3)>0 ;-1-2=-3

temp=Nearest_Element(element,-3)

If temp>0

;performs repulsion

If oncecoll=0

oncecoll=1

Velocity_Set(element,0)

;health loosing

Credits_Set(element,Limit(Credits(element)-collblows,0,24576))

EndIf

Attract_Xz(element,temp,-engine)

Attract_Xz(temp,element,-engine)

EndIf

Else

oncecoll=0

EndIf

 

;----------------------

;collision with scenery

;----------------------

If Volume_Rebound(element,Radius(element),cyltop,cylbot)=-1

Goto death

EndIf

 

;******

;SOUNDS

;******

 

rate=Interpolate(currentvel,0,255,srate1,srate2)

Samplerate_Set(element,rate)

 

Else

death:

;*****

;DEATH

;*****

;places the explosion with fire element where this character is

Position_Copy(element,element#1)

;enables the explosion with fire element

On(element#1)

;disables this character

Off(element)

EndIf

 

And of course the engine was already licensed, making it hard to freely distribute the tools.

 

 

Benefits of making it open:

 

Cool mods can be made

 

Newer and better improvements can be made with the client source available to all.

 

PriitK might release his part of the code

 

The spider's web won't act like a slinky when it chases someone in a zone (but it does make for great drama)

[L.C.]

I think it should be just coded to where it would be just like the 2D Subspace/Continuum, but with an extra dimension. This being the first step.

 

The second step would be where it is expanded even further - like seeing the finite ammo for weapons and stuff. I like seeing things formally and professionally built and such, but of course I can't control that. I do hope it'll be done like this though, like PriitK did. Hey, good luck on this. Get a new !@#$%^&*le too.

[Cruis.In]

what dev tool are you using and what language, the syntax looks like the languages is based on basic.

which isn't a bad thing.

 

based on and being basic are two different things.

[MillenniumMan]

what dev tool are you using and what language, the syntax looks like the languages is based on basic.

which isn't a bad thing.

 

based on and being basic are two different things.

 

 

It's 3D Rapid Application Development. I hardly see how it's rapid though, I had to come up with 60% new code to get this game to where it is, some came in examples and demos, the rest came from asking others to use their code. And yes, based on Basic, the compiler is something like visual basic, but easier to use. Even the Front End is VB. I prefer Resource Hacker to clean up what the compiler doesn't do.

 

Sucks when I tried to copy and paste to show a bit of the WB code, formatting in the post took out all the nestings. Ahh well...

 

The rest is being done in MilkShape with DirectX exporter and PSP5.

 

PS, to those that want the models, they will of course be included in the subdirectories X:\ss3rdspace\objects\ships\SHIPNAME\SHIP.X in DirectX format.

 

Some ingame function models will be in .3DS format (mostly collisions and weapon placeholders)

 

I now require some time to get collisions to work properly between ships and arena objects, they seem to p!@#$%^&* right through each other. Hitting asteroids with ships and weapons works, but, the !@#$%^&*ed things keep moving. Sure they're network synched, but it's a pain in the !@#$%^&* losing perfectly good rocks. Good news is that they make the environment dynamic, you nevr know what your next move is if a big-!@#$%^&* spaceboulder is coming at you.

[Drake7707]

yeah its perfectly possible to have such a game written in vb. Btw did you write the function to import .3ds files ? Because i'm interested in converting those formats i find on the internet to wavefront obj files for my (sucky) raytracer

[MillenniumMan]

yeah its perfectly possible to have such a game written in vb. Btw did you write the function to import .3ds files ? Because i'm interested in converting those formats i find on the internet to wavefront obj files for my (sucky) raytracer

 

 

The function was already part of the engine. If you mean exporting the 3DS files to OBJ, you could just use milkshape wavefront exporter.

[Cruis.In]

the guys trying to develop a new continuum client need to stop over complicating something like a 2d game. Sure it takes time, but with all the programming languages out there geared towards game development, you can cut that time by more than half because you don't have to code your own graphics engine, sound library, etc etc... there are blitzmax, blitz3d, purebasic, dark basic pro, python.

[MillenniumMan]

the guys trying to develop a new continuum client need to stop over complicating something like a 2d game. Sure it takes time, but with all the programming languages out there geared towards game development, you can cut that time by more than half because you don't have to code your own graphics engine, sound library, etc etc... there are blitzmax, blitz3d, purebasic, dark basic pro, python.

 

Could be worse, they could be asking for guys floating in spacesuits pulling pilots out of their ships, beating up on alien pros!@#$%^&*ues with three boobs and going down to ammuplanet for target practice with phil c!@#$%^&*idy the III (reference sig below )

 

There are a few benefits for what the team and I started a few years ago, to make a better client with better effects, gameplay and a way to lure new blood into the game. Sure this is a different client/server package, but it's been proven that those that see the 3D version of a game also want to view the genesis of these games for themselves. It's true with GTA, Duke Nukem, even pacman and frogger.

[L.C.]

EDIT :: lol, sorry about the long post.

 

I personally prefer engines made from scratch instead of premade engines for sale. Engines made from scratch usually look so much better and add uniqueness to the game itself. In Halflife, if you use prefabs (premade objects), your map gets looked down at. I have this same view for almost anything in the development world. To be honost, I do look down in slight disappointment on games that use premade engines.

 

Besides that - there's something I wanted to express. Remember Freespace? Have you played X3 Reunion? Doesn't the 3D atmosphere skysphere look pretty? I think Subspace in a 3D form should be using a similar kind of interface. At an angle as if playing one of the C&C games which can be rotated around the axis of the ship. The camera can either be locked onto the behind of the ship, lock in a top view, or be free moving by the mouse (anywhere around the origin of the ship).

 

Besides that, as an idea for the thrusters, instead of using fat ugly sprites, some detail can be taken to add tracers "sparkling" out (in velocy; a certain direction according to the movement of the ship). Then some simple sprites of having a white circular/sphere shape that fades outward. This color should be controllable through settings for each ship, and each ships rocket, and maybe even bombs and bullets if at all.

 

The sprites should use atleast DX7 shaders to blend and maybe even morph them together (as if blooming/HDR was enabled). Take a look at the current Subspace rocket graphics - notice the pattern or pathways of those blue fireballs? Well, we should just add another dimension to it of course and make it look the same but in a 3rd Dimension...except maybe that it wouldn't be a perfect cone-shaped spray, but a bit more flatter so that it doesn't exactly exceed 2.5 to 2.75 times more the size of the ship (this is in a side view of any ship).

 

Should the ship be able to go up and down? I think this is an idea that should be concentrated on at a much later time. Personally I enjoy the idea of having a 2D grid the ship flies on in a 3D space realm...though if you made it a 3D grid the ships could fly on, you could have a far more enourmas variation to levels. Of course though, you'd either need to make an appropriate level editor with the ability to create brushes/meshes, apply textures from BMP/PNG/whatever images, etc OR you would just need to direct the user to the right modeling or level designing software with the correct plugins (if any are needed) to accomplish the thought.

 

I think a 2D grid should be used, of course. Why? Well just for sanities sake, the work load shouldn't be as enourmas (than again, is it easier to work with a 3D flyable grid?) and kept a bit simpler until later. Shouldn't be over-ambicious with ideas or plans, or that might corrupt your DIM (Determination, Inspiration, Motivation) and cause you to go on a downfall of laziness and such. Mapping would be relatively the same way you map for Subspace. Making a map editor for this task shouldn't be as hard..for instance - the C&C Generals map editor is kind of a good example, except that it would take the interface of DCME or SSME. It would still retain the 3D perspective in the editor, or the user could choose to switch in between the two. The 3D perspective of course would be like the C&C Generals/other overview styles. The user would be able to select 3D asteroids and objects, and easily place them wherever they want in the map with little stress. Selecting should be just as easy, maybe holding a certain button on the keyboard and clicking on the object could work. A selected object would be outlined by a red/white/user-selected physical or cube box (enveloping the object).

 

Hmm..Tiles and walls in the 2D/3D Perspective..It should be kept easy and user-friendly. How do we accomplish this? Maybe by default everything would be "cube-like" - all sides of the cube would be covered by whatever tile/texture you had selected and would be the size of "1 unit" in Subspace. Then there could be an "Advanced mode" where the user can mold the object or import 3DSM/Milkshape models (they must also have a physical box for collision, duh ). For quite advanced users who know how to model very well and have the skins or textures they need, they could make extremely professional maps by just importing their work into the map.

 

But not everyone knows how to model like that. The advanced mode would have the importing feature usable, I guess. In the advanced mode, maybe the user should be able to create "brushes" and "merge" sides or sections into other adjacent brushes (basically all this results in a mesh like in modeling). This is kind of like mapping in Halflife, except that these really are not exactly like brushes since you can merge any portions (like morphing or the way metaballs merge) that are adjacent or a certain distance away from a certain part/vertex/face/etc. It would only take an hour or two to learn this stuff.

 

Ingame, it wouldn't matter how "tall" your walls and stuff are made. Though if you made a 3D flyable grid, everything is made harder. Learning to map for a huge 3D grid would take a few hours of course, getting the hang of it too...and making a complete (and event "gold" or "best of map showcase" kind of map would take weeks to months and months - really depends on complexity of map and how much time you really want to spend on it). So just like Subspace, but another dimension, a 3D perspective at a slight angle similar to the C&C Generals angling, etc.

 

Like I mentioned earlier about having 2 global spotlights, perhaps the user can have no more than 3 or 4 total global spotlights, and elseware he can add dynamic spotlights around the map with different brightnesses, pov stuff, color, etc. Global spotlights (individually) could have brightness, contrast, and the usual properties - and then it would come to a global spotlight property that is controlled for all 3 to determine the average light; for example, night time vs day time when the sun is shining bright everywhere - this would affect by how much dynamic lightspots show up in your map and on your ships and even objects (user preference on this). You could make something like an alley of spacelights (like streetlights on a highway ).

 

Mmmh, the atmosphere is kind of pretty in X3 Reunion..I like it. :] I have more thoughts, but I think I should stop here and wait.

[Cruis.In]

L.C

 

one thing to keep in mind, are the things I mentioned, blitzmax, etc.. are not game engines, or pre game engines, they are programming languages with alot of functionality and included modules which aid in making a game and writing your game engine or game framework.

 

game engine is different from a graphical rendering and for that opengl or directx is used.

[Mr. Right]

Hey mill, it's me judge (judgement day/guy with the silly name). Anyways, glad to see that you're still working on CNL/ss3d. I haven't been around lately b/c of other stuff in my life (school, work, other projects, etc.) but yeah, keep on trucking.

[L.C.]

Post #22

Ah sorry about that..my bad. -_- Oh well, atleast I contributed some of my thoughts. :X I hope they aren't any discouraging.

[Witchie NL]

Stop the talking and start the releasing.