The Continuum Project

[Drake7707]

then the best way would indeed be a server check based on sequence of packets, where a heuristic function is based upon.

 

(I wonder what Hackshield or GameGuard does to protect the mmo's using it)

[Cruis.In]

test

[Bak]

Things like punkbuster and such rely on a closed source design and constant updates which make diss!@#$%^&*embling the program usually not worth it since by the time you get anywhere a new version is out.

 

Internally, they do things like mask memory, so that you'll need to change two memory location simultanously in order to go undetected (this can be extended easily to three or four or more). Finding these locations is harder, since neither is exactly equal to your health, and the mask is probably random; changing the wrong one can be easily detected.

 

Gameguard installs itself with the OS, so that it overrides system calls commonly used to enter predefined input (macros, pretty much).

 

They do other things, like watch for a list of known cheating programs and packet sniffers. They prevent debuggers from attaching to the process (much like continuum). They check hashes of executables and resource files.

 

All of these things can be worked around, but it will usually take a while, and if the updates are frequent enough, it's difficult to get a cheat working before the program gets updated. All of the programs have to get updated, or cheats will eventually occur.

[»doc flabby]

Been doing a lil search on the internet.

To see how other people deal with cheating in gpl games.

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20000724/pritchard_pfv.htm

http://dragonwinggames.com/

 

A completly open source online game thats 15 years odl with some similaritues to continuum

 

http://genocide.netrek.org/

 

Another article talking about cheating

http://features.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/01/1558220

 

back in 99 they had problems when they OS quake

 

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=9...258&mode=thread

As others have illustrated, it's not the open-source model but rather this particular client-server model that's at fault. Let's see what we can salvage out of the existing model:

 

Ideally, the server would check all of the client's requests to see whether they comply with the laws of physics, but that is unfortunately unworkable with today's hardware and bandwidth. It is possible to go half-way on this one, though.

 

If the server simply audits the client's behavior, that is, verifies the client's requests at random intervals, fair play can be insured. Remember: all it takes is one bad request for the client to be banned as a cheater. If the auditing is done at random intervals, then the client can't adapt by spacing its valid requests with the correct interval.

 

All that's left is for someone to code a server to do this, and then for people to play on only trusted servers. The need for trust can't be eliminated, but it can be lodged solely in the server, where it belongs.

 

The only way to stop cheating completly is thin clients. however this just is not feasible with continuum.

 

Even in continuum now there are ways to "cheat" you can change the ships and bullets to make them more visible. im sure everyone knows about aimenhancer.

 

We cant stop cheating thats impossible. all we can do is try to mimize it.

[Drake7707]

well maybe a different approach is: don't check for cheaters, but players are able to vote for a player that is presumably cheating. If they get a lot of votes, the server checks its behaviour, and any abnormalties results in a ban, which can only be undone by a sysop or mod or so

 

Though, in that approach the damage done by a cheater isn't prevented (like flags are stolen)

[Witchie NL]

www.warrock.net check for the KickVote there. the gamemaster can start a kickvote and players need to press Y to accept. If there are enough votes the player is kicked.

[Smong]

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20000724/pritchard_pfv.htm

command requests:

What would be the criteria for rejecting a command?

Say you receive a position packet, or as the model puts it "move me here please position packet", how are you going to figure out how to reject it or not?

Also this model would require each client to know everything, like know exactly how much of each type of special every other player has. Meaning hackers can see when the enemy has no repels left and then attack.

[Drake7707]

actual position packets are never sent to the server, it's more like i'm going in this direction now, and the server can calculate where you'll be after x ms (same goes for the client), also there has to be a timestamp included in that packet, as client position must be synced with server position (server can keep in account the position moved when the packet was still underway). The only packet of position packet would be sent by the server, to tell: other player is in your region, its location is x,y and is headed to (vector) with a velocity of (double).

[Smong]

Ok I don't think it said positions are a special case in the original article but I think your response clears it up.

[etrigan]

Things like punkbuster and such rely on a closed source design and constant updates which make diss!@#$%^&*embling the program usually not worth it since by the time you get anywhere a new version is out.

 

 

I wonder how the Infantry/Cosmic Rift engines do it, seems like they download an new/diff exe everytime. Just enough to keep it fresh and obscure every time. Of course that would require a central server and quite a bit of BW for every !@#$%^&* update.

 

I guess that schema is a bit harder to accomplish when the servers are not run from a central location...

 

 

Off subject:

 

Quite honestly what a project like this needs is interest in the linux community, but no one is going to jump on board until there's a playable client/server. Most linux users have never experienced the Subspace excitement. If you could create that 1997 feeling of excitement, you could have thousands of new players(noobs to kill!!).

 

Im excited that you have taken this on Bak, its quite an ambitious project.

[Smong]

Since sony uses a pay to play model, anyone caught cheating can be banned, forcing them to cough up hard cash to open a new account. For a free game such as subspace this model doesn't work so well.

 

Do you really think marketing this at linux will help? I would have thought linux users are in a minority when it comes to games.

 

I'd also like to point out doc flabby started this thread after bak started writing his engine.

[etrigan]

Do you really think marketing this at linux will help? I would have thought linux users are in a minority when it comes to games.

 

 

Linux/*bsd users would love to game more....there's only so many options though. Its a hard trade off for most *nix users that don't want to run MS products, but want to play games. Wine is a solution for some...but that doesn't help the *bsd users. Wine is only recently becoming a useful project(relatively speaking).

 

This is a "huge" untapped market...same with the Mac OS X crowd. A free game like Subspace would attract thousands of players if viable ports were available.

 

Subspace/Continuum is the perfect quick action game, you can enjoy it for 20min and be done with it for the day....or you can play far longer if you really wanted to. In other words, you don't have to commit tons of time towards it if you don't want to. You can still be part of a community of gamers, and you don't have to sell your soul for a +10 sword on WOW or some crap. Of course if you want to spend tons of time on it...its there.

 

This game is an easy sell on any platform.

 

Sidenote:

Running Continuum on a mac is possible via a number of ways, but a real OS X binary would be dope:

http://forums.sscentral.com/index.php?showtopic=10607

[Witchie NL]

ohh and how about an website registration. So you dont need to registrate ingame but through a website. Which stores it in an SQL database or w/e.

[Smong]

It is very easy to write a basic client that can connect to a server and fly around the map.

...

I guess what I'm saying is write a core that has map transfer, map collisions and a player list. Then open it up so other people can contribute.

If I release enough code to do this will anyone pick it up and add to it? I'm not asking people to clone the entirety of SS, just what they want for their zone ideas. Due to the lack of ASSS developers I am also offering to help you write an ASSS module to support your client variation.

[The Apache]

ohh and how about an website registration. So you dont need to registrate ingame but through a website. Which stores it in an SQL database or w/e.

 

what if that website/database was hacked?

[Witchie NL]

then you have a big problem?. Im sure there is a reliable way since alot of games use it.

[Drake7707]

a lot of mmo games let you register through the web, and play with your account at the same time, and those have even credit card data involved.

[Caddy]

We don't have the resources companies like Valve, Blizzard and NCSoft can utilize to fend off and repel cheaters. We will have to improvise, and use more practical solutions. The current Continuum does that through the constant watchful eye of moderators, why not keep it so?

[L.C.]

We don't have the resources companies like Valve, Blizzard and NCSoft can utilize to fend off and repel cheaters. We will have to improvise, and use more practical solutions. The current Continuum does that through the constant watchful eye of moderators, why not keep it so?

Whoa, just hit my head.

 

I wonder if we can get Valve to put Continuum in their game listing under their 'Free Games' category. This would be excellent for advertisement and the population of Continuum.

EDIT :: I'll ask Valve later today, after I get home from school. I believe this opportunity/tactic/method of spreading Continuum is a must-do, and should be pushed for until Valve places Continuum in their listing.

[»Maverick]

I wonder if we can get Valve to put Continuum in their game listing under their 'Free Games' category.

Where is that (link) ?

[Smong]

You'd probably find it easier to get cont on a steam clone like vapour, even then I don't know who'd want their content delivery system flooded by tons of free games of questionable quality, especially if they have to pay bandwidth bills.

[»doc flabby]

Continuum is not of questionable quality

[L.C.]

Where is that (link) ?

http://www.steampowered.com/watch?v=index.php?area=free&

 

You need Steam (http://www.steampowered.com). Steam isn't required to run some of the games you can download through it (ie. Darwinia and Shadowgrounds).

 

EDIT :: I've contacted Valve about adding Continuum to their list (with ability to download Continuum through Steam ). Waiting for their reply.

[Smong]

All the "free" steam games are just demos/shareware. The only exception is the half life tribute called codename gordon.

[The Apache]

Continuum is not of questionable quality