Medicinal purpose?

[NBVegita]

Ok so I just think this is hilarious!

 

Cnn.com just published a report about the effect THC (the active chemical in marijuana) and how it can help with alzheimers. An exact quote about alzheimers:

 

"Those afflicted with Alzheimer's suffer from memory loss, impaired decision-making, and diminished language and movement skills."

 

Now doesn't that sound just like what happens to someone on pot? lol

 

Seems like people are really stretching this whole "legalization of marijuana" thing.

[jacob hunter!]

Yea, Pot would probably increase the disorderfor all its worth.

[AstroProdigy]

Why have pot illegal in the first place? Countries where it's legal have obviously proven that it's no worse than alcohol. Same thing with gay marriage countries where it's legal have proven that their divorce rates haven't skyrocketed nor has everyone suddenly turned gay.

[NBVegita]

The fact that one hit from a joint can dissorient you more than one full bottle of beer. Just one point of having it illegal.

[Yoink]

The fact that one hit from a joint can dissorient you more than one full bottle of beer. Just one point of having it illegal.

Says who? Just like alcohol, pot has a different effect on everyone. You don't present a case study that proves this, so I'm taking your statement as completely false.

[NBVegita]

The fact that one hit from a joint CAN dissorient you more than one full bottle of beer. Just one point of having it illegal.

 

Note the key word...CAN. I did not say "one hit from a joint dissorients you more" I said can.

 

Can [kan; unstressed kuhn]

 

1. to be able to; have the ability, power, or skill to:

 

I know it goes both ways because as you smoke more you build up a tolerance. Thats why its considered a gateway drug (I can produce a case study for this if you would like). Because you need to keep smoking more and more to get that "high" and then you move to other things because pot just doesn't do it for you. But on to the point that if you smoke a ton, of course one hit or one joint won't effect you like it did when you started. You also build a tolerance to alcohol, but there never hits a point where you cannot get drunk any longer. Or can't get as drunk. It just takes a few more drinks. (I can provide a case study on this also)But this isn't comparing alcoholics and pot addicts. I was refering to the casual user. Which I guess is bad terminology because I have not met a pot user yet who doesn't believe they're any more than a casual user...even if they do it 3 times a day every day.

 

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0038.html

 

Shows a good point why to keep marijuana illegal. And being I know that everyone selectively reads, this is an article from the health department of columbia univerisy. Their research is accredited world wide.

 

So please if you are going to debate my posts on this forum, actually debate a point instead of trying to pick apart my use of the english language, which in every case so far has not been of proper usage to display my point without displaying it as fact or disregarding other oppinions.

[Guest Die Hard]

The fact that one hit from a joint CAN dissorient you more than one full bottle of beer. Just one point of having it illegal.

 

Note the key word...CAN. I did not say "one hit from a joint dissorients you more" I said can.

 

Can [kan; unstressed kuhn]

 

1. to be able to; have the ability, power, or skill to:

 

I know it goes both ways because as you smoke more you build up a tolerance. Thats why its considered a gateway drug (I can produce a case study for this if you would like). Because you need to keep smoking more and more to get that "high" and then you move to other things because pot just doesn't do it for you. But on to the point that if you smoke a ton, of course one hit or one joint won't effect you like it did when you started. You also build a tolerance to alcohol, but there never hits a point where you cannot get drunk any longer. Or can't get as drunk. It just takes a few more drinks. (I can provide a case study on this also)But this isn't comparing alcoholics and pot addicts. I was refering to the casual user. Which I guess is bad terminology because I have not met a pot user yet who doesn't believe they're any more than a casual user...even if they do it 3 times a day every day.

 

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0038.html

 

Shows a good point why to keep marijuana illegal. And being I know that everyone selectively reads, this is an article from the health department of columbia univerisy. Their research is accredited world wide.

 

So please if you are going to debate my posts on this forum, actually debate a point instead of trying to pick apart my use of the english language, which in every case so far has not been of proper usage to display my point without displaying it as fact or disregarding other oppinions.

 

 

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/17895/T...ts_Of_Marijuana

[NBVegita]

I would personally take a study published by columbia univeristy over a story written in a mens magazine by someone who is by no means an expert on the subject.

[AstroProdigy]

Yeah but then you should make it illegal to drink over a certain limit. Besides I know people who need more than 1 joint to get dissoriented. If they plan on driving a car then arrest them, but come on getting wasted in your house is perfectly legal so why isn't getting high? I mean it's safer to get high. Also, there are chicks who get buzzed at 1 beer. Just a point to the hypocritical nature of these laws.

 

Alcohol has long term sideaffects. Smoking pot is harmful to the lungs. What about say special brownies? Smoking cigarrettes and drinking while pregnant are more destructive to your body. Of course there are side affects, but the argument isn't if pot is bad for you it's is pot any worse than cigarrettes or alcohol?

 

It's a fact that you can't overdose on marijuana and die. However you can over drink and get alcohol poisoning and die. Smoking cigarrettes has much worse long term sideaffects than marijuana as it's extremely addictive and you are forced to drink packs a day of cigarrettes whereas even the hardcore potheads dont smoke more than a few joints a day. Again, there should be restrictions on pot smoking like not smoking in public places like they do in New York for ciggarettes. You can also ban smoking and driving like they do for alcohol. However there is no real proof that marijuana is worse than either cigarrettes or alcohol so either ban them all or ban none of the 3.

 

Don't forget it's been proven in countries where it's legal that their societies are not falling apart. I don't understand why people ignore this very obvious fact.

[NBVegita]

Hey I'm not an advocate of smoking, alcohol or pot. There have been studies, my article has some of the research showing long term issues and dangers with pot. I mean I'm sure everyone knows a pot head. How their whole life revolves around pot, and they get burnt out and they become someone completely different than they used to be. They mope around all day, they're almost incoherent. Maybe I'm touchy on this subject, but one of my best friends from high school graduated 1st in my class. At the end of his senior year he got involved in pot. By his junior year of college, he dropped out of college and ended up kicked out of his house, and working full time at McDonalds, all because sitting around smoking was more important than school. Even when he went to class he would only go if he was high. I know this is an extreme case, and alcohol can be just as bad, but pot is bad too.

 

It has been shown in many studies that if you use pot, you are more likely to try harder drugs, than someone who does not. It also shows that the earlier the start the greater the risk also.

 

Cigarrettes won't do that to you. And a studies have proven that a gl!@#$%^&* of wine a day is actually good for the body. And marijuanna has some good medicinal purposes.

 

But exactly as you stated, pot is bad for you. Smoking is bad for you. Drinking is bad for you. Or at least they all are for the most part. As for cigarrettes, they keep enforcing more and more bans. Alcohol...well as you pointed out they tried that once. The problem is once you tell someone something is ok to do, its hard to be like "just kidding, put down that beer!" Thats why alcohol won't become illegal again, because it's too integral in our society today. But honestly, why do we need another way to !@#$%^&* our selves up? I guess the reason why they are keeping it illegal, is because beyond medicinal puposes, there is nothing constructive about legalizing pot. I mean honestly, if the government legalizes it, they'll make some money off taxing it, but with all the dealers we have while it is illegal, why pay the government taxes on it when everyone can get it without the government knowing anyway?

 

Just because our forefathers let these things that are bad for us become legal, we don't have to do the same. I'm not saying pot would tear apart the country or anything extreme like that, but there just is no good reason to have it legal outside of medicinal purposes.

[Yoink]

See there's an inherent problem with this argument. Repeatedly, both sides of the argument have found their idea to be true, and the other to be false. Mommies want you to see that people have done case studies to show that pot is bad, and the burnouts want you to see case studies that would disagree.

 

And as far as my previous post goes... that wasn't what I was aiming for. It's that you put your statement in the air as "irrefutable fact" when it really is a conditional statement.

 

--

 

 

Hey I'm not an advocate of smoking, alcohol or pot. There have been studies, my article has some of the research showing long term issues and dangers with pot. I mean I'm sure everyone knows a pot head. How their whole life revolves around pot, and they get burnt out and they become someone completely different than they used to be. They mope around all day, they're almost incoherent. Maybe I'm touchy on this subject, but one of my best friends from high school graduated 1st in my class. At the end of his senior year he got involved in pot. By his junior year of college, he dropped out of college and ended up kicked out of his house, and working full time at McDonalds, all because sitting around smoking was more important than school. Even when he went to class he would only go if he was high. I know this is an extreme case, and alcohol can be just as bad, but pot is bad too.

There's a problem here. You're debating from the outside, and I'm debating from the inside. By that, I mean I've been smoking pot on a psuedo-monthly basis (and occasionally more, say during summer or vacation) for almost six years, and I have yet to see any affects on me. I graduated last year fourth in my class, after my first semester here at the university (U-M), I'll have enough credits to be a sophomore.

 

Your friend is an exception to the majority. The same thing happens to some people with alcohol, sex, and every other vice in the world.

 

But exactly as you stated, pot is bad for you. Smoking is bad for you. Drinking is bad for you. Or at least they all are for the most part. As for cigarrettes, they keep enforcing more and more bans. Alcohol...well as you pointed out they tried that once. The problem is once you tell someone something is ok to do, its hard to be like "just kidding, put down that beer!" Thats why alcohol won't become illegal again, because it's too integral in our society today. But honestly, why do we need another way to !@#$%^&* our selves up? I guess the reason why they are keeping it illegal, is because beyond medicinal puposes, there is nothing constructive about legalizing pot. I mean honestly, if the government legalizes it, they'll make some money off taxing it, but with all the dealers we have while it is illegal, why pay the government taxes on it when everyone can get it without the government knowing anyway?

 

Just because our forefathers let these things that are bad for us become legal, we don't have to do the same. I'm not saying pot would tear apart the country or anything extreme like that, but there just is no good reason to have it legal outside of medicinal purposes.

If they made it legal, the whole stigma of it being cool would go away faster than Tom chasing Jerry. There wouldn't be a sudden influx of people who want to smoke pot - because if people wanted to already, it's not hard to get. It's maybe half a tier under beer as far as "part of our society" goes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway I'm not going to debate this any further because it's just my opinion versus yours, and there's always going to be this logic that we both have to unjustify the other's argument, and justify our own.

[AstroProdigy]

Oh the "gateway" drug idea. You understand that if you're using an illegal drug you're more likely to try another illegal drug because hey you're doing something illegal anyway right? If pot was legal this argument would be a falsity. Saying smoking pot might lead someone to do other drugs that are dangerous is like saying drinking might lead to over drinking which kills. The idea is that pot itself is less dangerous than alcohol or smoking so you should have the freedom to use it. You can just as easily say sex can lead to STD's so let's make sex illegal. It's just not a productive argument. If pot itself was more dangerous than alcohol or smoking then I'd agree that it's right to have it illegal.

 

If you look at the history pot used to be acceptable like drinking. Then they went and made it illegal. However today, people get pot illegally all the time. They don't pay taxes to the government for it because it's illegal. I can draw the same parallels for pot that you drew for prohibition of alcohol.

 

Studies have proven a gl!@#$%^&* of wine a day is beneficial and then more studies come around and say it's harmful. That means it's not conclusive. In general it's not particularly harmful unless you consume large quan!@#$%^&*ies regularly. Pot is not particularly harmful unless you consume large quan!@#$%^&*ies regularly. Why is pot so different from alcohol then?

[NBVegita]

The fact that one hit from a joint can dissorient you more than one full bottle of beer. Just one point of having it illegal.

 

And as far as my previous post goes... that wasn't what I was aiming for. It's that you put your statement in the air as "irrefutable fact" when it really is a conditional statement.

 

The instance of me adding the conditional "can" automically induces my statement to be conditional. A conditional, can be both fact and true, and fact but false. Adding the conditional "can" to my statement means that if there is just one case that proves my statement true, the entire statement becomes true.

 

Basic logic. People should really stop trying to misinterperet what I post to assist their issues, as noone has done it effectively yet.

 

My final stand on the issue is far from opinionated. If someone could produce solid evidence that it would be positive to either our society, economy, or the population, I would, although I personally do not agree with the use of it, not fight against the legalization of said drug. There is a fact that it has not been proven to be a positive aspect of our envirionment, beyond medicinal means. For that I do believe, even if you have an opinion or not, that you cannot dispute that. The government does not have the job of proving that said drug is bad, it is the party to whom is trying to legalize it, that must indite facts that prove it has positive worth to be marketed and distributed.

 

On a logical scale, non-partisan of course, if something has no economical, political, militaristic, or socialistic gain for the country, why should something such as this be induced into the country?

[NBVegita]

You can just as easily say sex can lead to STD's so let's make sex illegal. It's just not a productive argument. If pot itself was more dangerous than alcohol or smoking then I'd agree that it's right to have it illegal.

 

Make sex illegal? I'm sorry that you have taken a complete illogical, and unfounded approach at attacking this. Comparing reproduction, what is ingrained in every species to survive, is far different from growing a plant that effects you inhibitions and smoking/ingesting it. Sex is a natural body function, smoking or ingesting a mind altering drug is not.

 

As stated in my post above, proving that it is better than alcohol or smoking, which as yoink pointed out will all depend on which study you read, if the study is pro, or anti legalization, does not give grounds to legalize it. It may hold grounds to push for illegalizing smoking and or alcohol, but it does not prove a valid argument as to why it should be legalized.

[jacob hunter!]

both your opnions don't matter unless people like one of them better then the other.

[NBVegita]

On a logical scale, non-partisan of course, if something has no economical, political, militaristic, or socialistic gain for the country, why should something such as this be induced into the country?

 

Non-opinion based.

[AstroProdigy]

My point is not that it would be positive for our society, although making alcohol illegal was negative for our society because it created crime, I'm saying it makes no more negative effect than alcohol or nicotine.

 

The sex analogy wasn't me seriously saying to make sex illegal. It's to show that pot being illegal is ridiculous. Ok let me rephrase the analogy. Make sex before marriage illegal.

 

It's well proven that you can't overdose on marijuana. There's no debate about this. The amount needed to overdose is so ridiculous it's not even possible. That's why it's safer than drinking. It's safer than smoking cigarrettes because that's probably the most addictive drug available.

 

Does alcohol have any benefit for the country? If marijuana was legal you could tax it and it'd be legal and there would be farmers who grow it for profit. It'll also be regulated so things can't be mixed into it and that it's safer for people's health.

[NBVegita]

As stated in a previous post, if people can get it so widely while its illegal to bring into the country, do you really think the government is going to make any money? Why pay for the gov tax stuff thats weaker than the stuff you can get off of the street? And the money the gov would have to spend to do things like have ways to detect "high driving" ect would outweigh the small profit from those who actually buy it legally.

 

As stated again in a previous post, the problem isn't proving if pot is or is not better than alcohol and or cigarrettes. Note that they keep putting more and more restrictions on that, until someday not too far off I wouldn't be surprised if its illegal. The point is that you must prove the positive effects would out weigh the negative effects of legalizing it nationally. Just because its not as bad as alcohol and cigarrettes is a poor excuse to make it legal.

 

The government is wise not to nationally induce another mind altering substance. But they do allow it for medicinal purposes, based on the state of course. And note, this part is legalized because the positive aspects of its medicinal uses were proven. Not just because it wasn't as bad as other medicines.

[»Ducky]

Vegita's right, end arguement.

 

It's not about comparing the effects of one thing to another to justify it.

They are already stamping out smoking, it's only a matter of time.

 

Quit whining that the government is helping society.

Pot ruins lives, as does alchohol. God forbid we help people who obviously cannot help themselves.

 

Want to smoke pot? Do it, no one is stopping you. If you get caught, then you were 'too high' If it doesn't impair you, you won't get caught.

[jacob hunter!]

brb.

[Yoink]

On a logical scale, non-partisan of course, if something has no economical, political, militaristic, or socialistic gain for the country, why should something such as this be induced into the country?

 

Non-opinion based.

Uh, there is an economical and social gain available. Here's my case study: alcohol in Europe vs. America. We have this crazy drinking age, and alcohol is a big deal - in Europe (pick your country, there are plenty that testify for me) it's not. Pot wouldn't be such a big deal if it was legal. Not everyone from The Netherlands is a burnout.

 

And not to mention the tax dollars that would would be shaved off of pot profits.

 

The point is - it's illegal because of the few "think of the children!!!" mommies that think that it's their responsibility to govern every other child on their block.

Vegita's right, end arguement.

 

It's not about comparing the effects of one thing to another to justify it.

They are already stamping out smoking, it's only a matter of time.

 

Quit whining that the government is helping society.

Pot ruins lives, as does alchohol. God forbid we help people who obviously cannot help themselves.

 

Want to smoke pot? Do it, no one is stopping you. If you get caught, then you were 'too high' If it doesn't impair you, you won't get caught.

Pot can be easily compared to alcohol. So no, he's not necessarily right.

 

You can just as easily say sex can lead to STD's so let's make sex illegal. It's just not a productive argument. If pot itself was more dangerous than alcohol or smoking then I'd agree that it's right to have it illegal.

 

Make sex illegal? I'm sorry that you have taken a complete illogical, and unfounded approach at attacking this. Comparing reproduction, what is ingrained in every species to survive, is far different from growing a plant that effects you inhibitions and smoking/ingesting it. Sex is a natural body function, smoking or ingesting a mind altering drug is not.

 

As stated in my post above, proving that it is better than alcohol or smoking, which as yoink pointed out will all depend on which study you read, if the study is pro, or anti legalization, does not give grounds to legalize it. It may hold grounds to push for illegalizing smoking and or alcohol, but it does not prove a valid argument as to why it should be legalized.

No, people have sex for pleasure. To a point where it can be considered a vice. So let's make sex illegal because there are possible negative effects. Yes, that's great logic.

[AstroProdigy]

If the government regulates it then they can make money. Pot and alcohol ruin lives ONLY if the person doing them is very irresponsible.

[NBVegita]

As stated before why would you buy it from the government and pay tax for weaker stuff, than buy it from a dealer for cheaper?

 

dolphins also have sex for pleasure, we should keep them seperate so they can't "spread disease", they too have std's. And for that matter any STD can be transferred through body fluids, something as small as a tiny cut on your finger. So everyone with an STD or AIDS should either be in an ins!@#$%^&*ution or in a biohazard suit so that they cannot p!@#$%^&* disease.

 

As stated having sex is a NATURAL BODY FUNCTION. Smoking a plant on the ground is not. Plain and simple. It is ingrained in our bodies to have sex. Nothing is ingrained in our bodies to smoke plants. Primal instincts: Survive and mate.

 

You cannot redily compare the effects of alcohol and pot as they effect the body in different ways. And as stated before, you cannot justify making something bad legal by saying that something worse already is. And no matter if you support it or not, Pot is bad. Just like alcohol and smoking. Which of them is the worst will be an arguement for the ages, but ALL OF THEM = BAD FOR YOU! Note: excluding the medicinal purposes of alcohol and marijuana.

 

If it were only a few "think of the children" mommies then the legalization would have passed by now. For every person who wants it legalized there is someone who doesn't. Plain and simple. If not, it would be legal. Yet again basic logic.

 

And as for a social gain, you cannot prove, even by using other countries, that making pot legal would do anything but increase the usage of pot. As stated, man I just love re stating myself, if someone fights to make it legal, there must be evidence that it will benefit our country to do so. Even if it won't harm our country any, which hasn't been proven one way or another, it will never pass As stated, why is the government going to legalize another mind altering drug if it will not have a major positive impact on our country?

 

And I do agree with your statement about it ruining lives. Like alcohol if done casually, and with responsibility it won't ruin your life. But just like alcohol, it will do nothing to help it.

[Aileron]

Well, that's not really true. Typically the development of an addiction is just a solution to a person's sucky life. If its not drugs the addiction could be video games, soap operas, or Star Trek. Those things aren't nearly as physically dangerous as drugs, but the idea is the same. The problem is that in our modern society we tend to leave people behind, denying them the proper social network they need for their mental health, and these people need addictions to dull the pain.

 

 

 

It is truly amazing the problems drugs cause in our country:

 

The use of drugs is the center of all organized and unorganized crime.

This organized and unorganized crime turns our cities into slums.

The slums cause people to move out of the cities, causing urban sprawl and environmental loss.

The urban sprawl makes people have to commute by car for long distances, causing pollution and massive oil consumption.

 

On a side note, drug smuggling paves the way for human smuggling as smugglers diversify. (Once a smuggler finds a route for one product, he can smuggle other products and/or people as well by that route.)

The human smuggling causes huge numbers of illegal unskilled laborers to enter the country.

The illegal unskilled laborers increase the supply and decrease the demand for unskilled labor, which causes the total wage/benefits package to decrease.

The devaluation of unskilled labor makes the value of secondary education to become very important, which increases demand for college education, which raises tuition rates.

On a side note, each illegal unskilled laberer does not pay health care or social security, and displaces a legal worker who would pay those things, causing a dip in the funds that go towards those pools.

 

I admit the second string is a bit more of a stretch than a first, but the point is drug use causes a LOT of problems.

 

 

 

As for its medicinal use...most medical drugs are addictive and narcotic, and that is why the modern pharmacy is structured the way it is. If Marijuanna has a medical benefit, there's no reason not to use it.

[AstroProdigy]

Why would you pay taxes on alcohol when you can get it from a dealer? Obviously that's not how it works when the government regulates things.

 

Drinking a grain and water mix is not a natural bodily function.

 

Are you high? Of course you can compare the effects of alcohol and pot. It's just easier t defend your argument if people don't.

 

Again you ignore the fact that alcohol is not beneficial to society. It is taxed, which can be done to pot.

 

Pot is a source of crime because it's illegal. It's like making freedom of press illegal and calling it a crime. It's something that should not be illegal and simply taxes our already overburdened jail system which takes money from tax payers.

 

Drugs don't turn ur cities into slums. Poor planning and corruption and a federal government policy of suburban support turns our cities into slums.

 

Drugs isn't the only center of crime. There's also guns, which hypocritically Republicans fully support.

 

Wow...a bit more of a stretch? Drugs didn't cause the immigration problem. That's a huge stretch with no basis whatsoever. I'm sorry, but that was ridiculous. The point is that pot is not like other drugs. Putting them all in a lump only fools people into thinking a fallacy. Legalized pot would cause no smuggling business just like legalized alcohol doesn't cause a smuggling business. The fact that pot's illegal is why it causes "a LOT of problems".