Muslim violence

[NBVegita]

Ok I'm sure you have all been keeping track of whats been going on with Pope Benedict and the Muslim culture. And I will state first and foremost, I don't agree with what the pope has done, or what he is doing. But sofar a Nun and her body guard have been murdered, muslim authorities are not positive, but they strongly believe it is in relation to the pope's conduct, and churches are being attacked with fire bombs and the like. So why are the muslim people so fast to resort to violence? There are many ways to protest without leading to physical, or monitary violence. So why is it that it seems like the first course of action the Muslim people take.

 

Note: I do not mean all muslim people, as a good majority are doing good protests, and non violent means. So remember that my term "Muslim people" refers only to the Muslims commiting these acts, not them all as a whole.

[AstroProdigy]

Christians would turn to violence if they were run by clerics and believed the Bible in absolutism like they did a few centuries ago. Also, many people don't do enough to control their radicals in the Muslim World.

[SeVeR]

Any culture in the developing world would do the same. It just so happens that alot of the developing world is Muslim. And Astro is right, centuries ago we were at that level of religious, social and economic development.

[NBVegita]

But centuries ago, that actually helped your cause. In the modern world, violence like that specially homicide is no way to conduct your concerns or anger.

[AstroProdigy]

I don't know about that. It did get the pope to apologize.

[Yoink]

But centuries ago, that actually helped your cause. In the modern world, violence like that specially homicide is no way to conduct your concerns or anger.

That's one of the many gifts America has given it's Christians - apathy. That and the fact that 300 years of modernization and sex on tv (or some form of entertainment, you get the idea) has made us a little less fundamentalistic. One of the biggest problems with quite a few Muslims is that they're half a millenium behind the rest of the world.

[NBVegita]

the pope apologized before violence started happening.

 

As for the Muslims, they can try to say they are "behind" in the world. And some of their countries might be. But for the majority that is bull !@#$%^&*. Just because you don't have flat panel televisions, or sexually explicit television shows, does not mean you are not aware of common humanitarian conduct exhibited amongst a large amount of the worlds major countries. They choose to be this way, it is not ignorance that makes them so.

[»ZiGNoTZaG]

One of the biggest problems with quite a few Muslims is that they're half a millenium behind the rest of the world.

 

Agreed. I dont think it really has anything to do with the faith. Its the lack of education. Most of these radical muslim groups consist of one well educated leader. And the rest are just uneducated sheep that do what they are told. I think IQ averages in that part of the world are really low. Tools.

 

And just as some food for thought:

 

More people will die of violence every day right here in the US, then in Iraq.

 

You are more likely to get shot walking through the wrong hood in DC. Then walking through the streets of Bagdad.

[NBVegita]

The only problem with that comparison is that the deaths in the U.S. are not against other groups within America for the point of proving a point, or in protest of another group. I mean there are a very very few. Even after 9/11, there were a very small amount of actual violence against the muslim people, and or their temples.

 

And as for your statistics, the chances of YOU getting shot walking through the wrong hood is slim to none. You might get attacked, or beat up for your wallet, but the overwhelming majority of murders happen between people who know each other, and are either gang/problem related in these neighborhoods. And by sheer numbers we might have more deaths, but % we are well below.

 

Iraq population - 26,074,906

 

America - 295,734,134

 

Of course we have more deaths in our country. And of course we have a higher death rate as you have a country with that many more people, its bound to happen.

 

Also inciting that the "baby boom" generation is starting to die off, so that our death rate has been overtly high over the past 5 years.

[The Apache]

ok, here's my say in this:

 

i do believe the muslims over-react way too much. i'm not being racist when saying that, but it's a fact right?

 

fair enough, i can see why the muslim communities got upset and angry at him, but it's not enough to start horrific violence agaisnt other races.

 

pope benedict could've given a more direct apology, but if he even hinted an apology, the muslim people should be happy with that. the muslims have definetly been over-reacting at this. what has Pope Benedict got to do to make the muslims happy? convert to a muslim and believe in the qu'ran?

 

to be honest with you, in my opinion, Muslims think they are above-the-rest of everyone else and they should be treated differently for what they believe in. many people believe in different things, so why should the muslim community be treated any differently eh?

 

it's kind of ironic how the radicals within their race have been creating violence when it says clearly in the qu'ran that violence should never be an option at all.

[»ZiGNoTZaG]

"The only problem with that comparison is that the deaths in the U.S. are not against other groups within America for the point of proving a point, or in protest of another group. I mean there are a very very few. Even after 9/11, there were a very small amount of actual violence against the muslim people, and or their temples."

 

Yes our violent acts are over much more important things like "turf" and that next hit off the crack pipe.

 

"And as for your statistics, the chances of YOU getting shot walking through the wrong hood is slim to none. You might get attacked, or beat up for your wallet, but the overwhelming majority of murders happen between people who know each other, and are either gang/problem related in these neighborhoods. And by sheer numbers we might have more deaths, but % we are well below."

 

Yes, the odds of me personaly getting shot are slim, but the fact remains...these are volitile areas with abundant amounts of senseless violence. Wether its a random death, or gang killings...its still americans killing americans....without even a religious cop-out to back it up. "He looked at me wrong/wore the wrong colors" i was thinking in more of a statistical manner, then a personal one.

 

Iraq population - 26,074,906

 

America - 295,734,134

 

"Of course we have more deaths in our country. And of course we have a higher death rate as you have a country with that many more people, its bound to happen.

 

Also inciting that the "baby boom" generation is starting to die off, so that our death rate has been overtly high over the past 5 years."

 

when looking at situation like bagdad your talking about an occupied city. And yet it is 'Statisticaly' safer to walk down the street there, then it is to walk around in DC. Regardless of the population differances...thats revolting.

 

Again...Muslims are not quick to be violent....your seeing that one educated Muslim, pulling a Charles Manson with the foolish ones.

[NBVegita]

It's always safer to walk through and occupied city.

 

It doesn't matter if they are just following the lead or making the decisions themselves, they are still commiting the acts.

 

Yes I think its a travesty when americans kill other americans, but honestly the only people that effects are AMERICAN people! What the muslims are doing are effecting people from dozens of countries. If they were just killing themselves I would have no problem, I'd say let them have it! But the fact that they are killing or attacking christians, not even for what they have done, but for what the pope has said is just appalling.

 

I almost agree with apache.

[»doc flabby]

Playing devils advocate:

 

He suggested all muslims brought was violence.

The reaction is violence towards him.

 

Hes kinda proved his point.

[SeVeR]

Zig:

Agreed. I dont think it really has anything to do with the faith. Its the lack of education.

Who says that faith and a lack of education are not linked; Certainty destroys curiousity does it not?

 

Apache:

what has Pope Benedict got to do to make the muslims happy? convert to a muslim and believe in the qu'ran?

He has to not insult them. If he does then he shouldn't insult them further by apoligising for the violence and not the comment.

 

NBV:

As for the Muslims, they can try to say they are "behind" in the world.

Um NBV... i don't here them saying it alot, i hear us saying it.

 

They choose to be this way, it is not ignorance that makes them so.

Again wtf, they don't choose to be born into religious families.

[Aileron]

Actually it's just that D.C. is that out of control. Just last year two men attacked my father in broad daylight just outside his apartment.

 

 

You know what, at this point I agree with what the Pope said. Face it, the general Islamic populace is violent, and through a combination of our desire to be politically correct and their unwillingness to think about their religion we can't even have true dialog on the subject.

 

They say things much worse than anything the Pope ever said on a daily basis and have made a way of life out of commiting atrocities. When the west tries to stop the terrorism, we use our own convention which states that we must exhaust all other dimplomatic actions, so we negotiate.

 

Your typical Muslim fanatic though will not sit down at the table until the western negotiator lies seven times saying: "Islam is a peacefull religion." Only then will the Islamic representative sit down, and then the first thing out of his mouth is "Since everyone here agrees Islam is peacefull, the problem must be with the West." Thus, the only result of the negotiations is a unilateral action by the west, weather its Israel pulling out of the Gaza Strip, the UN not enforcing sanctions on Iran, or whatever. These treaties never work because the first !@#$%^&*umption of the talks was a lie.

 

Islamics are violent, and unless that increasingly obvious fact is dealt with or atleast recognized by the Islamic world peace will elude us. The point of the Pope's comment is this: Until the Islamic world can stomach a statement like that and argue against it in an intellectual manner, true dialog cannot happen.

 

You know, maybe I've grown bitter, but frankly I don't even care if another holy war starts. The west has tried and tried and tried again, and that effort has only been answered by increasing sensitivity and violence.

[Confess]

I dont know about anyone else, But I find it extremely funny how the Pope says "The Islam Religion is a violent religion"....and then the Muslim people turn around and say "Take that back!" then start burning down buildings, killing people...etc... Needless to say, Case and Point.

 

The simple fact is, the majority of the muslims there are do not read the qu'ran to know that realistically, the Muslim religion is simply that, violent. Mohamid was violent himself, telling everyone while he was spreading his religion "Convert or die".However, Mohamid also acknoledged that the Christian and Jewish Religions are where he decended from, and because of this, when he was going around killing people making them convert, If they said "I am a Jew" or "I am a Christian" he would say "okay" then leave them alone, where as, if they where anything else, he would say "Convert to Islam, leave, or die."

 

The only reason that Islam is so huge as it is now is because that is what they did, throughout the world. They would tell people "Convert, or die".

 

Its also amazing how none of this did start untill about 2 days after all of this, when a few people decided "Hey! lets make this a big deal!". Realize this: The pope NEVER said I am sorry. He said "I am sorry if it affended you"...He realizes the facts, your own Mohamid stated it himself "Islam is a violent religion", and it is.

[NBVegita]

Honestly who cares what family you are born into, as a human being you have the right to make your own choices. Some decisions are harder to make than others, and most people just don't have the strength to make the hard ones.

 

And I love your first para conf. Well put.

 

And as for them, I did not mean it to be the muslim people, I meant it to be the people who are saying they are behind. Be careful what you try to dissect in my posts.

 

I should have posted: As for the Muslims, they can try to say the Muslim people are "behind" in the world.

 

I apologize that I posted that while I was at work and made a single typo.

[SVS]

I dont know about anyone else, But I find it extremely funny how the Pope says "The Islam Religion is a violent religion"....and then the Muslim people turn around and say "Take that back!" then start burning down buildings, killing people...etc... Needless to say, Case and Point.

 

The simple fact is, the majority of the muslims there are do not read the qu'ran to know that realistically, the Muslim religion is simply that, violent. Mohamid was violent himself, telling everyone while he was spreading his religion "Convert or die".However, Mohamid also acknoledged that the Christian and Jewish Religions are where he decended from, and because of this, when he was going around killing people making them convert, If they said "I am a Jew" or "I am a Christian" he would say "okay" then leave them alone, where as, if they where anything else, he would say "Convert to Islam, leave, or die."

 

The only reason that Islam is so huge as it is now is because that is what they did, throughout the world. They would tell people "Convert, or die".

 

Its also amazing how none of this did start untill about 2 days after all of this, when a few people decided "Hey! lets make this a big deal!". Realize this: The pope NEVER said I am sorry. He said "I am sorry if it affended you"...He realizes the facts, your own Mohamid stated it himself "Islam is a violent religion", and it is.

 

The pope wasn't even expressing his personal opinion on the subject, he was quoting a 14th century emperor. The reaction by some segments of the Muslim community is rediculous and would be halarious (if it weren't so !@#$%^&*ing frightening). Let us all take notes on what is okay for people to say about Islam. You may not redicule Islam in any way. Be it thorugh CARTOONS or reading QUOTES. If you dare read a QUOTE that Muslims do not like no matter how long ago the quote was made you better be prepared for buildings to be burned and people to be murdered. Because isn't it rational to get all worked up over a QUOTE from the 14th CENTURY. I mean holy !@#$%^&*ing !@#$%^&*. What the !@#$%^&*ing !@#$%^&* is wrong with some people.

[NBVegita]

agreed.

[Himura Kenshin]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1536581,00.html

 

 

before you come to a conclusion about other faiths check your own, you have killed millions in the name of god. Do some 7th grade history back to the middle ages and the crusades.

[Confess]

Himura,

There is quite a bit of a difference between the two. Whereas Mohammid went around saying "Convert or die", Jesus did not go about saying "Convert or die". There is a difference between Divine Intervention and Man's Actions. Man can do whatever they want in the "Name of god"...but that doesnt mean that it truly is in the "Name of God". I can say "I kill SVS in the name of Drizzit!" But...did you say "Go kill millions of people for me"? No.

[Himura Kenshin]

Wow lol you truly are brainwashed believing everything you are force fed thro american TV.

 

You dont know what you are talking about and have no evidence for these claims except what you have been forced to think. Mohomad brought peace to the arab countries.

 

You know what, the church did much more worse things, first off they Didnt say Convert or die they killed you before you had the chance. They were utterly corrupt saying you must buy your way to heaven. Anyone who thought a little differently was executed. Read any hisitory book about the middle ages and they all say the same about the Christian churches and the Inquisition. They killed and slaughtered left and right, they truly had a bible in one hand and a sword in the other (the crusades). So dont give me your BS confess untill you know what really happened in your own religion.

[»doc flabby]

Personally i dont care what happened x 100 years before i was born.

I dont have any religious affiliation.

I just want to be left alone!

 

Why do people feel the need to be violent towards others for saying something or drawing a cartoon.

 

When the danish cartoon was published in some parts of europe. We had of people demonstrating on the streets of london (i live in uk) and people dressing up as suside bombers, this was after 3 tube trains had been blown up by terroists. The ironic thing is london is the most ethinically diverse of all british cities and has a high muslim population they killed quite a few muslims.....1.5 million people marched in london against the war on iraq why should the people of the uk be made to suffer for decisions they do not agree with.

 

The british press and media refused to print or reprint the cartoon. Why the need for the violent demonstrations. We didnt do anything. The same is true for this current "terrorism" its always against people who havnt done anything.

 

Now if the attacks were against military or goverment targets, most people would see that as more valid targets than just the people.

 

I dislike the way that terroism is being handled. The goverment has hyped up the fear factor and is pretty much able to do anything in the name of "stopping terroism" When the IRA was attacking the UK they were treated as criminals that they were, there was no need for "special" new laws, the existing crimes of murder and attempted murder and conspiry to murder were sufficent.

[Aileron]

Um, no, the crusades weren't like that. The rallying point was the Turkish invasion of Constantinople, but since it was too hard to retake they went after Israel instead. Infact the third and fourth crusades seemed straight out of the hippy 60s, as they consisted of armies of children holding flowers. The Spanish Inquisition was just what the acjective in front of it implies - Spanish. It was an action done by the King of Spain and his secular army.

 

The point is I, a Christian, argue against your statements with logic, while a typical Muslim would threaten or attack you. Its not as if there is a religion in the world that does not consist of a sinfull population, it is just that healthy religions can admit the mistakes of their members and urge them to improve.

 

 

It is a shame that so many people in the world are so weak in mind. Too often indeed people use religion as a crutch to compensate for that weakness. True religion is actually a challege for the strong.

 

Muslims react this way because they have no faith in God. They hide this lack of faith under a veil of mandates. They pray three times a day, but if one has faith in God, one realises that God has no end, but we are mortal, so it would be cruel of him to demand our finite time to appease his infinite. It would be like creating a bird, but not letting it fly. (On the other hand, the "keep holy the sabbath day" Commandment in Christianity actually is a demand NOT to work 24/7 and to take a day off on a regular basis.)

 

They also have a code to only pray with clean hands and that if they touch a member of the opposite sex (such as shaking hands), their hands become "unclean". Why? God created man. God created woman. God required that they screw each other to produce more people. If it was God's intention that man and woman not touch or screw each other once in a while, he made a mistake in creating man and woman in the way that he did. Since God doesn't make mistakes, its clear that His intentions on the subject were that we shouldn't treat the other gender as unclean. (Though there are reasons to not be too promiscuous. Like all things in life its a balancing act.)

 

 

But to get back to the topic, Muslims resort to violence because they do not believe in God's justice. The universe is structured to punish the sinfull; how many great societies had corruption as a major factor, if not the domineering factor, involved in their downfall? Muslims are unsure that God's justice exist, so that is why they seek their own kind of justice by being violent to anyone they hate.

[NBVegita]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...1536581,00.html

 

 

before you come to a conclusion about other faiths check your own, you have killed millions in the name of god. Do some 7th grade history back to the middle ages and the crusades.

 

 

Before you jump to conclusions you had best be better informed. First nowhere was it stated what any of our religious affiliations are with, and as I have been baptized episcopal I have not one day in my life gone to church for mass I've gone for weddings, and I was there for a baptism or two. What I speak to you (as in everyone on these forums) about is not from a religious standpoint in any way. The reason why I don't go to church is because I don't personally agree with what the christian church teaches, and with their past actions. I am coming from a mere political standpoint. I've never once mentioned anything criticizing or even concerning their religion, except for the ways the followers of the religion are reacting concerning said comments made towards/against their religion.

 

So before you go off and criticize me for something, you had better do a little more research. If you disagree with my statements, don't try to attack me, defend your beliefs.

 

And on a third point, what the christians did in the middle ages is irrelevant to what the topic is about. If you want to discuss problems with the christian church, then start your own topic about it. Pulling up something that happened over a dozen centuries ago, to justify something the Muslims are doing now is just plain silly.

 

And lastly what makes you think that you know so much about american education and or broadcasting? Unless you are in fact an expert on the matter, then I do apologize. Concerning the islamic religion, I have not seen one, now this is me personally, not one broadcast concerning any such thing. And I cannot attest for all parts of the country, but I was educated in NY, and I have read history books from dozens of countries, not just in my college education either. I have been versed on much concerning other countries cultures, politics and religion. So to with a narrow mind, categorize me and a drone of the "american TV" is yet again unsounded. Before you try to criticize and or insult, be sure of who you are trying to engage.