Bush's latest speech:

[SeVeR]

Iran has a Jewish population half the size as it used to be that has absolutely no access to the outside Jewish world and no ability to leave and is oppressed.

If you read the link i just cited you'd know that Jews are not oppressed. In fact they are quoted as saying they don't want to leave at any cost for any reason. If you like, here are some quotes from the page:

 

"About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots."

"Because of our long history here we are tolerated," says Jewish community leader Unees Hammami, who organised the prayers.

He says the father of Iran's revolution, Imam Khomeini, recognised Jews as a religious minority that should be protected. As a result Jews have one representative in the Iranian parliament."

 

Even a representative in parliament! So in other words its the complete opposite to what you've just said so i'm gonna need some sort of source before i consider what you're saying. Just read the link i posted, Jews are treated well and won't leave for any reason. Its the Zionists who the Iranians dislike, Jews as a people live reasonably well and certainly want to stay in Iran, that shows great understanding from the Iranians if they can differentiate between Zionists and Jews without lumping them all into one group, they show very little racism and i find that admirable.

 

I didn't reply because I wrote out a long post and then couldn't post it because copying and pasting ur quotes was not allowed and when I put what I wrote on a word do!@#$%^&*ent to put up later, but it turns out copying and pasting is not allowed

Thats ok, maybe SVS will jump on this and say that Microsoft Word is against our discussion because i'm not being factual enough.

 

Venezuela is hardly anywhere near the level of Iran. Venezuela is a socialist democracy. Iran is a theocracy. That's a huge difference. Not only that, but Iran's extremist clerics have been goating on the people for decades to hate us and wish us dead. Let me rewrite my response to the other post if it's important to you.

I know, just it happened with Iraq, now Iran, and i'm wondering who is next to be strung up in the press to justify a war. America could probably go to war with Iran now and get away with it. I think the only limitting factor is how many countries they can fight at once. Hopefully Iraq is his last war.

[SVS]

This doesn't mean we should allow them to go ahead and develop them, just because other nations possess them doesn't mean everyone should have them.

Agreed. Good thing Iran don't want nukes, aren't making nukes and have never expressed a desire to have nukes.

 

 

 

The reason why no one cares to read your posts Sever is you keep posting your opinions as absolute facts.

 

You have no way of knowing Iran's intention for nuclear weapons (for sure), none of us do. If your opinion is that their goal is not to ever develop a nuclear warhead that is fine, go ahead and state that. But stop stating your opinions as absolute facts especially when it is obvious you have no way of knowing the accuracy of your statement.

[NBVegita]

First off, unless you are the mistress of the iranian president NO ONE, AND I REPEAT NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT IRAN'S NUCLEAR POWER FOR CERTAIN!!!!

 

Agreed.

 

And yes I'm agreeing with myself.

 

There is nothing wrong with that.

[Steigerwald]

I think bush needs to visit mississippi or another one of the katrina states. My brother just returned from doing some volunteer work down there and its pathetic how much work has actaully been done by the state, instead independent contractors are going down and doing work with no support from the state. They cleaned up WTC, why are we still waiting for katrina to be cleaned up?

 

By the way. War on terror death toll for our forces is equal or has passed the amount of deaths from the WTC.

 

God only knows what the next elected offical will do in office.

[AceSpades]

I can smell me a bush hater.

[AstroProdigy]

Newsflash Steig...Bush doesn't care.

 

Sever lemme see your source for your quotes.

 

From what I've read Jews in Iran can only contact Jews that are opposed to the existence of the state of Israel (practically no one). The Jews in Iran are forcibly isolated so I'm not sure one source covers things. From what I've read Jews, like other religious minorities are oppressed by the government. 1 seat in parliament out of 290 doesn't mean doodly squat if the Jews are still oppressed not to mention the clerics make all the final decisions. They're forbidden from travelling to Israel. The figures of the percentage of Jews that left Iran is 85%. Please use real facts from now on.

[NBVegita]

State and Federal governments are seperate en!@#$%^&*ies. So if the state government is not doing anything, don't blame the president. Blame the govenor. Our deathtoll for the war on terror is one person over the 9/11 attacks, and the major difference is that 9/11 was a majority civilian casualties, whilst the war on terror is military casualties.

[AstroProdigy]

If it's an interstate disaster that takes out very large portions of multiple states then it's the Federal government's responsibility. The fact that Canada was ready to help us faster than our own government is humiliating.

 

9/11 didn't take out a large portion of the east coast so it was much easier to clean up.

[NBVegita]

a big issue is that the government must be so thourough. If you recall, which actually a lot of people don't. Shortly after the disaster FEMA started handing out very large checks. They tossed these out very fast, and then found out something like 30% of the money was sent to people who sent in claims saying they had all of this disaster and their homes didn't even get damaged. Yes the government should have reacted pre-emptively and faster after the aftermath, but because of the inhonesty of the people in the area, FEMA must now have proof of what each person lost before they cut the check. Kinda slows the monitary part down. As for construction, its better for the country's economy to allow private contractors to do the work...and for not helping...who is paying those contractors? Oh wait its not the poor people with no money.

 

I'm not supporting the government in this, they !@#$%^&*ed up, but its not as if they are not doing anything, and its not like there is no rhyme to their reason.

 

I have a lot of problems with the victims too because they're so hypocrytical. When everything happened, say, getting out of the disaster zone. All they did was !@#$%^&* about not getting out fast enough. Now after the fact they !@#$%^&* that the government didn't wait til they could move whole families out together. If you didn't want to get on that !@#$%^&* bus/plane then why did you? They expected the government to move this m!@#$%^&* amount of people and keep all of the families (aunts uncles, grandparents, cousins) together? Specially not being rude, but the majority of lower class family units statistically do not share common last names. Just how in the !@#$%^&* was the government supposed to do that?

 

Sorry for that little rant, really had nothing to do with this but I just had to rant.

 

Also 9/11 was just two planes into two buildings, the hurricane was a catastrophic natural disaster. Big difference. Huge difference.

[SeVeR]

Astro:

Sever lemme see your source for your quotes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

 

I posted this link when i brought this issue up again a couple of days ago. Its not my fault you didn't read it.

 

1. There are 25,000 Jews in Iran and the majority live respectful lives without opression.

2. They are proud of being Iranian.

3. They don't want to leave for any reason, even if mistreatment were to take place.

4. They have a representative in parliament!

5. The father of Iran's revolution, Imam Khomeini, recognised Jews as a religious minority that should be protected!

 

Please read the page thoroughly, the five points i've posted are the ones that stick out as completely contradictory to your opinions about Iran.

 

The figures of the percentage of Jews that left Iran is 85%. Please use real facts from now on.

I did, you just ignored the link. No wonder people like SVS are spurting crap about me, you guys won't even look at my sources. What are your sources Astro? And by the way i would fully expect lots of Jews to leave Iran to go to Israel upon its creation. That doesn't mean they're oppressed, that means they like the idea of a Jewish state and want to live among Jews.

 

NBV:

First off, unless you are the mistress of the iranian president NO ONE, AND I REPEAT NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT IRAN'S NUCLEAR POWER FOR CERTAIN!!!!

Agreed.

 

However with no evidence of nuke production and no known desire from Iran to have nukes we are entertaining a possibility that has just as must credit as considering America to be after world domination. You would tell me there is no known desire from America to conquer the world and no evidence that they are doing such a thing, and as a result you'd tell me America don't want that. Of course neither of us can be absolutely certain, but why entertain a possibility with no evidence?

 

SVS: Great comeback there, if i ever look as dumb as you just did i'll be sure to double post aswell.

[NBVegita]

I agree that there is not evidence that I have personally seen that they are trying to acquire WMD. But its kinda hard knowing there's no love lost between the two for the U.S. to just sit back. I don't agree with the steps they've taken sofar, but I agree that they should keep an eye on Iran. I'm a moderate republican, and I do agree that they've gone in a bit too hasty on this one. Not saying I'm blaming the U.S. but I personally think they should have waited more time.

[SVS]

I will keep reposting this until you wake up and UNDERSTAND IT.

 

This doesn't mean we should allow them to go ahead and develop them, just because other nations possess them doesn't mean everyone should have them.

Agreed. Good thing Iran don't want nukes, aren't making nukes and have never expressed a desire to have nukes.

 

 

 

The reason why no one cares to read your posts Sever is you keep posting your opinions as absolute facts.

 

You have no way of knowing Iran's intention for nuclear weapons (for sure), none of us do. If your opinion is that their goal is not to ever develop a nuclear warhead that is fine, go ahead and state that. But stop stating your opinions as absolute facts especially when it is obvious you have no way of knowing the accuracy of your statement.

 

You are saying that FOR SURE Iran is not after nuclear weapons and when we confront you on that claim (a claim you obviously are not capable of making since you aren't the Iranian government) you back it up by saying that there is no EVIDENCE that they are after nuclear weapons. Well for starters you are wrong that there is no EVIDENCE (Iran has purchesed nuclear technology specificly related to developing nuclear warheads from Pakistan, why would they purchase such information if they weren't planning on eventually building them, feel free to argue whether or not this is evidence but as I am about to point out...) but that doesn't even matter because we are only saying that you can't possibly know for certain that the Iranian government is not after nuclear warheads. It doesn't matter if there is no evidence (in your opinion) or not, the fact still remains that you are claiming absolute knowledge of a governments intentions when you have no way of knowing the truthfulness of your statement. This is obvious to everyone BUT you. I don't really know what else to say to you at this point, I hope you now understand why we have a problem with how you express your OPINIONS.

[AstroProdigy]

Handing out money wasn't the question the first 7 days. The problem was that we weren't trying to save the people trapped.

 

Sever I don't think if Bush suddenly decided people born in Europe are not allowed to visit Europe and contact with people in Europe can be called conspiracy and you live with people who hate Israel and by proxy Jews all around you. So many people emigrated because they were afraid all of a sudden Iran would go "hey we're gonna kill you now because we can and maybe it'l show Israel that we're serious". The Kurds are a minority...doesn't mean Iran treats them fairly. Just because you're recognized as existing doesn't mean you're protected from whatever a theocracy of a religion that runs counter to yours feels like doing to you.

[Greased_Lightning]

a big issue is that the government must be so thourough. If you recall, which actually a lot of people don't. Shortly after the disaster FEMA started handing out very large checks. They tossed these out very fast, and then found out something like 30% of the money was sent to people who sent in claims saying they had all of this disaster and their homes didn't even get damaged. Yes the government should have reacted pre-emptively and faster after the aftermath, but because of the inhonesty of the people in the area, FEMA must now have proof of what each person lost before they cut the check. Kinda slows the monitary part down. As for construction, its better for the country's economy to allow private contractors to do the work...and for not helping...who is paying those contractors? Oh wait its not the poor people with no money.

 

I'm not supporting the government in this, they !@#$%^&*ed up, but its not as if they are not doing anything, and its not like there is no rhyme to their reason.

 

I have a lot of problems with the victims too because they're so hypocrytical. When everything happened, say, getting out of the disaster zone. All they did was !@#$%^&* about not getting out fast enough. Now after the fact they !@#$%^&* that the government didn't wait til they could move whole families out together. If you didn't want to get on that !@#$%^&* bus/plane then why did you? They expected the government to move this m!@#$%^&* amount of people and keep all of the families (aunts uncles, grandparents, cousins) together? Specially not being rude, but the majority of lower class family units statistically do not share common last names. Just how in the !@#$%^&* was the government supposed to do that?

 

Sorry for that little rant, really had nothing to do with this but I just had to rant.

 

Also 9/11 was just two planes into two buildings, the hurricane was a catastrophic natural disaster. Big difference. Huge difference.

 

I hate the whole "blame the government for the hurricane" mentality. First off, federal funding was made available back in the 90s to update and strengthen the New Orleans levy system. What did they use it for though? Casinos, mardi gras, beads, !@#$%^&* like that. You want to blame government? Blame Louisiana and New Orleans officials for sitting on their !@#$%^&*es and using funds for little bull!@#$%^&* things like a park or a taco stand.

Another thing, it's not like the hurricane appeared out of nowhere like a tornado. They knew it was coming towards the Gulf Coast days and days beforehand. They had New Orleans in the predicted storm path days and days before landfall. It was a strong storm as they had seen days and days before it made landfall, yet so many people didn't leave. Now, there are some people who obviously couldn't get out as easily; the elderly, small children, sick, injured. But a lot of the people !@#$%^&*ing are those who stayed in the city and looted. The first days after the storm were filled with video and picture of hundreds (thousands?) of people in the city looting and wreaking havoc. Military and police helicopters came under small arms fire by these groups, and they wonder why they were reluctant to go in?

Furthermore, it's not like you can just snap your fingers and have hundreds of buses and trucks and supplies hundreds and thousands of miles across country just like that. There are no huge warehouses marked "In Case of Emergency, Break Gl!@#$%^&*" containing trucks ready to go at a moment's notice. The logistics of trying to get the personel there, supplying THEM, and then also supplying the people who they are supposed to rescue are enough to make a person shoot himself.

Lastly... and most importantly, to anyone complaining who lost their homes or businesses in New Orleans...

 

YOU BUILT YOUR HOME/BUSINESS AND LIVED IN AN AREA BELOW SEA LEVEL RIGHT NEXT TO THE OCEAN. COMMON SENSE SAYS THAT AT SOME POINT, YOU WILL BE FLOODED.

 

They want to blame someone? Blame their local and state elected officials for not ussing the money they got for what it was intended. And after that, blame themselves for being so stupid as to live in a sunken swamp.

 

Oh, and there were 4 planes. Nobody ever seems to remember that one hit the Pentagon, but everyone remembers the one in the field.

 

A bit off topic perhaps, but I feel better now.

[NBVegita]

They were talking about the cleanup in nyc which would mean 2

[Greased_Lightning]

....

[AstroProdigy]

The levies breaking is Louisiana's fault. The federal government being slower than even other countries to respond to their own disaster is Bush's fault. Brownie you're doing a heck of a job. Some people didn't have cars. Try walking out of Louisiana. Sorry they don't have enough money.

 

If Canada can deploy to help us all the way down in the Gulf Coast faster than we can do anything then we've got a broken system.

 

Sorry people didn't decide not to live somewhere because there's danger. why don't we clear out all the earthquake and tornado zones too because that's dangerous. New York City isn't safe either because of terrorists let's all move down to some magically safe place.

 

Blame the local and state government for the levy breach. Blame the federal government for not giving a !@#$%^&*.

 

A plane hit the Pentagon. What's your point?

[SeVeR]

SVS:

You are saying that FOR SURE Iran is not after nuclear weapons

And you're a !@#$%^&*ing idiot.

Why?

Because you don't read my posts.

Why?

Because you said this:

The reason why no one cares to read your posts Sever is you..

So what you missed is this:

NBV:

quote

First off, unless you are the mistress of the iranian president NO ONE, AND I REPEAT NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT IRAN'S NUCLEAR POWER FOR CERTAIN!!!!

Agreed.

 

However with no evidence of nuke production and no known desire from Iran to have nukes we are entertaining a possibility that has just as must credit as considering America to be after world domination. You would tell me there is no known desire from America to conquer the world and no evidence that they are doing such a thing, and as a result you'd tell me America don't want that. Of course neither of us can be absolutely certain, but why entertain a possibility with no evidence?

 

So get of your high horse SVS, and shut the !@#$%^&* up because dismissing an opinion makes you unable to counter it properly.

 

So many people emigrated because they were afraid all of a sudden Iran would go "hey we're gonna kill you now because we can and maybe it'l show Israel that we're serious".

And in hundreds of years this has not happened, even in the last 60 years since Israels creation there has not been a massacre of Jews. Would you say this supports all the points in my last post which you haven't countered?

[NBVegita]

I've lost a lot of care and respect for a mojority of the people involved due the the amounts of looting done by the people who stayed behind before katrina hit, and the amount that happened after.

[AstroProdigy]

Forced conversions and persecution has happened within hundreds of years to Jews pretty much everywhere in the world except the US. That's why they needed a state because they didn't want to be at the whim of whatever is going on in the country they're in all the time. I don't think Iran could even massacre the Jews there since Israel would immediately step in.

 

Some looted, but some were just looking for food. Not everyone who stole stuff was just looking for a profit. Blaming the victim is a natural human response though.

[NBVegita]

Thats why the national guard was brought in? cause they were looking for food inside those big screen tv's...

[AstroProdigy]

Like I said not everyone was looting for profit...

[NBVegita]

Also if you had researched Katrina at all behind what propaganda you see on the television, you would know that it did NOT take 7 days for the government to respond.

 

Katrina made landfall on August 29, National Guard arrived on August 31st. FEMA and DHS arrived on August 29th. FEMA = Federal Emergency Management Agency...wait...Federal... Department of Homeland Security...wait thats Federal too...

 

I love how people take advantage of the fact that they can gain sympathy because of the catastrophe that overwhelmed governments and ci!@#$%^&*zen alike, and then try to say that the government should have pulled a david copperfield and had thousands of people dissapear instantly.

 

These good wholesome people sitting in the super dome, were so concerned about this catastrophe that they found the bathrooms and the ground littered with incredible amounts of drug paraphernalia, 5 people were raped within the first day, and 2 murdered. Some good wholesome citizens there..."!@#$%^&* a huge huricane is coming! Forget Grandma! But DON'T YOU DARE FORGET THE NEEDLES!!!"

 

I'm not saying that the government response could not have been better, in every situation, there is always a better choice looking back on it, but 7 days? cmon just who are you tyring to fool? !@#$%^&* by the 5th day (Sept 3rd) the entire superdome was evacuated.

[AstroProdigy]

Sorry if there were people there that did nothing. The real response took a week. When law and security break down it turns to anarchy. Considering the number of people there I'd hardly be so ready to condemn them all as criminals. Please don't stereotype everyone trapped in New Orleans as drug addicts, murderers, and rapists just because it keeps Bush from looking incompetent.

 

The government's response to the tsunami was quick even though the area affected was on the other side of the globe. The government response to a domestic disaster was slower than a global disaster on the other side of the world. Two things about this. For one this proves the federal government could have easily responded quickly if FEMA wasn't downgraded tremendously and left in the hands of cronyism. You use cronyism for something not important not the person in charge of disaster relief in the US. On top of that this only shows that the federal government won't help it's own people even though they can. What's wrong the people weren't rich enough to matter enough for an efficient response as expected from a First World country and the most powerful country in the world at that. Hey guess what happened to Michael Brown after Katrina? First he was largely scapegoated to ignore the person who put him in charge in the first place. Then he was hired as an advisor to FEMA for the same pay. That's quite the cronyism there.

[NBVegita]

The real response? Just show me dates and facts, not heresy. I've given you dates for FEMA, DHS, and National Guard. What other response are you referring to?

 

As for Mike Brown, He was the FEMA director, and the Undersecretary of Emergency Preparedness and Response, who personally showed up, and then was demoted as a scapegoat, and then he resigned due to "falsifying his resume". I'm sorry that the Director of FEMA was not enough to represent FEMA...maybe you were expecting the pope?

 

As for the criminals, I don't mean that everyone was, I'm just pointing out that they're all not innocent victims either.