TeHsU Posted September 12, 2006 Report Posted September 12, 2006 You guys killed my post with quotes first of all, second Palestine was wiped off the map, because a bunch of leaders in the UN thought it'd be better to take land from people who had nothing to do with World War 2, and Iran will not create nuclear weapons, and USA cant do !@#$%^&* about it just like they couldnt do !@#$%^&* to North Korea, so get your head out of your !@#$%^&*, and quit thinking like you can control every country out there, just like Israel lost in the war with Hezbollah, America will lose with Iran.
AstroProdigy Posted September 12, 2006 Report Posted September 12, 2006 1. I don't think there are inspectors to see if they are also building nuclear weapons. 2. I again ask you how naive do you have to be to believe they'd stop with nuclear power? For one, they sit on a giant oil reserve. A nuclear power plant is completely pointless. On top of that, they know nuclear weapons would give them much more power in world events. Sorry if I don't think Iran is a holy country that does no wrong. "They are wealthy!""Did I say "all"? Stop twisting words." No you inferred it, but good job. Then you try to prove your argument with zero knowledge of economics. The United States has more per capita income, but we have loads of poor people. Per capita income means the AVERAGE. If one person makes 1 billion dollars per year and 999999 people make 1000 dollars per year it averages to 2000 per capita. European means rich? Are you insane? There are lots of poor countries in Europe. Just because France, Britain, and Germany are rich doesn't mean Europe is all rich. Another stereotype. Throwing "bank balance of 2.3 billion" when you don't even understand what that means doesn't make you look smart. China has an account balance of 160.8 billion, but has a per capita income (with purchasing power) ranked 84th and a nominal gdp ranked 110th. Please don't throw figures around if you don't understand what they mean. It makes you look re!@#$%^&*ed. Again, you are re!@#$%^&*ed. There haven't been periods of peace? Really? I've said it before I'll say it again. You are re!@#$%^&*ed. If the government can't control it's people sometimes that doesn't mean any old civilian can keep the war going by blowing himself up in his car. The international community isn't that re!@#$%^&*ed to believe Iran isn't using nuclear power (which is completely pointless for a country with mammoth reserves of oil) as an excuse to make nuclear weapons. Being naive isn't an excuse to let bad stuff happen. Go ask a civilian in Iran if Iran should be able to develop nuclear weapons to and they'll overwhelmingly say it's their right. If the people support it and you want to do it for power, then there's no reason not to when idiots like you turn a blind eye. Palestine is an Arab country. The country and its borders are manufactured. They are not based on an ethnic group. They are based on divisions by foreign powers. The Arabs in Palestine along with Arabs in other countries made the decision to destroy the state of Israel from the start. They failed. TOUGH LUCK! Israel is even willing to let them have their own state, but only if they can get a government that doesn't call for Israel to be wiped off the map. This is too hard for them. When the PLO became moderate and progress began, they voted for extremists again. That's their fault for !@#$%^&*ing themselves up the !@#$%^&*. People can't seem to get over that this little sliver of land is owned by Jews. I know Europeans and Arabs are having trouble adjusting to the Jews owning something for once, but the US doesn't need to believe in some crazy order that was started a long time ago.
TeHsU Posted September 12, 2006 Report Posted September 12, 2006 Your not going to agree with me or Sever, so this is pointless, I am muslim, and I know alot of what happens in Iran government, I understand Arabic, and I understand other languages, You speak from knowledge of other countries such as North Korea, but I know what I am saying is true, and "Israel is even willing to let them have their own state" The land is Palestine, you miss the point when you say that, its not the land of Israel its the land of Palestine, since when does israel get the right to give land to Palestinians? Wait I can answer that myself, since the UN and US are in there pocket.
NBVegita Posted September 12, 2006 Report Posted September 12, 2006 First off, unless you are the mistress of the iranian president NO ONE, AND I REPEAT NO ONE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT IRAN'S NUCLEAR POWER FOR CERTAIN!!!! I mean honestly, you have your sources, we have our sources. You think yours are more credible. We believe ours to be more credible. The problem is you're right that we're not going to agree with you and sever. The whole point of a political debate is not to conform others ideas. It is to express your own. So if you are speaking to conform our ideas, then I believe you should stop posting now. Just because I disagree with sever's viewpoint, does not mean I think any less of him. Same with you. Just try to keep that in mind, in a point like this where there is obviously no wrong or right, no black or white, don't try to conform others ideas, just support your own.
TeHsU Posted September 12, 2006 Report Posted September 12, 2006 Thats very true, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone
SeVeR Posted September 12, 2006 Author Report Posted September 12, 2006 1. I don't think there are inspectors to see if they are also building nuclear weapons.So this means they are? Please, its this kind of distrust that makes Iran think so little of us. 2. I again ask you how naive do you have to be to believe they'd stop with nuclear power? For one, they sit on a giant oil reserve. A nuclear power plant is completely pointless. On top of that, they know nuclear weapons would give them much more power in world events. Sorry if I don't think Iran is a holy country that does no wrong. 1. Iran are no more holy than the US. I don't care for religion, all specialise in the irrational.2. Saying "they know nuclear weapons give them power" is obvious, irrelevent and a poor attempt at incrimination. Does knowing this priceless nugget of information make Australia want nukes too? You seem to be implying that a knowledge of what brings power (no matter how obvious) somehow means that they want that kind of power. Your logic is completely !@#$%^&*ed.3. Oil runs out. I'm sure they want to sell as much oil as possible when the other countries around the world get desperate, economically for Iran it is very favourable to build a nuclear power plant since the price of selling more oil will more than equal the costs of construction and operation. You claim to know alot about economics... "They are wealthy!""Did I say "all"? Stop twisting words." No you inferred it, but good job.The basic interpretation of the comment "The Jews are a wealthy people" is "On average Jews are wealthier than many other peoples". I can't help it if your interpretation is clouded with your desire to pigeon-hole me as anti-semitic. Then you try to prove your argument with zero knowledge of economics. The United States has more per capita income, but we have loads of poor people. Per capita income means the AVERAGE. The average income is the best representation of wealth for any people! Name me a better one! If one person makes 1 billion dollars per year and 999999 people make 1000 dollars per year it averages to 2000 per capita.And its the same for every other country in the world... you telling me Israel is a special case of 1% rich vs 99% in poverty (or something similar)? Otherwise your point here means nothing. So here's some more stats for you to digest about poverty levels in Israel: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_pop_...ow-poverty-linePoverty Levels in Israel are 18%, for comparison in the UK its 17%. Point won, and this better be the last time you call me re!@#$%^&*ed over something you are completely and utterly wrong about. because France, Britain, and Germany are rich doesn't mean Europe is all rich. Another stereotype. Europe is on average a richer continent! For Christ's sake, you're attacking me on this now? Do i have to pull more stats out of the bag? Throwing "bank balance of 2.3 billion" when you don't even understand what that means doesn't make you look smart. China has an account balance of 160.8 billion, but has a per capita income (with purchasing power) ranked 84th and a nominal gdp ranked 110th. Please don't throw figures around if you don't understand what they mean.I threw it in because thats the sort of money that would be distributed to Israeli citizens if their country was dissolved you inflammatory cretin. I know it has nothing to do with income because i'd just posted the income stats above! For your interest the USA's bank balance is minus 860 billion or something ridiculous. There haven't been periods of peace? Really? I've said it before I'll say it again. You are re!@#$%^&*ed. Name me a period of peace then!! Your whole argument seems to be based solely on calling me a racist or calling me re!@#$%^&*ed, yet i'm easily showing you where you are wrong and trying very hard not to sling an insult back in the process. Go ask a civilian in Iran if Iran should be able to develop nuclear weapons to and they'll overwhelmingly say it's their right.It is their right. So what? That doesn't mean they're going to build one. Its the right of all countries in the world to build nukes, although many realise they don't need them and many realise that bigger more powerful countries don't trust them with one. None of this relates to nuclear power which is what Iran is trying to develop (and has been for many years). They are not based on an ethnic group. Palestinians are an ethnic group, look them up... -EDIT- I respected you before that post, despite your opinions. When you insult me at the same time as showing me your complete ignorance of the very subject that caused your insult, well... there's only so much idiocy i can take.
AstroProdigy Posted September 12, 2006 Report Posted September 12, 2006 TeHsU:Oh yes the US and the UN are both controlled by those dam jews...right. The land of Palestine? You act like it was a sovereign nation even thought it was a possession of Britain. It doesn't even contain a specific ethnic, language, religious, or cultural group considering that all the countries around it have the same language, religion, and culture. This is like Mexico losing Texas, not like France losing it's whole country. I can ask you since when do the Arabs in Palestine and the countries surrounding Palestine get to go kill the Jews to solve the problem? They lost the battle and pretty easily at that. Like I said before; TOUGH LUCK. Sever:Most countries would be looking to create nuclear weapons with the actions Iran takes. Iran takes it a step further wishing to "destroy the infidels". Iran is no more holy than the US. Ok the US has thousands of nukes. That mean Iran would do the same? As I said you think Iran is holy? You think they don't want power? Did you get hit in the head as a child or were you born this way? LOL that you think they're looking ahead. The oil's gonna last at least half a century (that's if the world doesn't decrease it's oil dependancy) and it would last them alone for a very very long time. 2.3 billion dollars to 6 million Jews is less than 500 dollars each. Can you do math? They're gonna lose their homes and everything they've worked for for less than 500 dollars? "The Jews are wealthier than many other people" means a lot considering that the vast majority of the world is poor. "Poverty level" means you don't even make enough to get by. You think near poverty level people can just "adjust" to a forced exodus? Look into the full issue before u nit pick small parts. Not only that, but Britain wouldn't do well if they were suddenly all forced out of their homes and scattered either. So now what's your argument? You have to be stupid to think that it's ok if some of the people are alright with your proposed "wiping Israel off the map" please take some economics classes before you spew bull!@#$%^&* and nit pick only small things so they support your argument. On average Europe is a richer country? You seem to be fond of the word "average" even though it's just one of many factors that economists look at. You do understand that the vast majority of the world isn't rich and wouldn't adjust well to losing their homes and their livelihoods all of a sudden because of some crazy nutbags who are stupid enough to think its peachy keen and easy when it supports your argument. Figures of wealth level also don't take into account suddenly losing your whole livelihoods and wealth. No one adjusts well to that... You're whole argument seems to be that Palestinian Arabs are absolutely right as well as Iran and Hezbollah, while Israel, Britain, the US, are absolutely wrong. I thought you didn't believe in absolutes? Then you throw the idiotic and ignorant !@#$%^&*umption that simply taking millions of people and suddenly taking everything away from them and scattering them across the world and giving them less than 500 dollars each is just fine. Having nuclear weapons isn't a right. You can't seem to understand that. Having nuclear weapons is wrong and its regretful that the countries who already have them got them. Letting Iran get them too doesn't make it right...it just makes it more wrong. Palestinians are Arabs. That is an ethnic group, however it's the same one as the countries surrounding them.
Tiq Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 Sever:Most countries would be looking to create nuclear weapons with the actions Iran takes. Iran takes it a step further wishing to "destroy the infidels".That's rather linear thinking. Not every Arab nation's aim is to destroy the infidels. In fact, that is only the aim of the terrorists, and terrorists are not in charge of the countries in the Middle East. Thugs are. And thugs want, more than anything, power as a means to further their thuggish nature. If Iran were to obtain nuclear weapons, it would be because it wants to tip the scales in its favor, in terms of GLOBAL POLITICS. People get lost in this whole terrorism thing and forget that the greedy pricks of the United States or Western Europe are not unique. There are greedy pricks the world over, and they don't really care much about such mundane things as religious prophecy or whatever. It all comes down to power. Iran is no more holy than the US. Ok the US has thousands of nukes. That mean Iran would do the same?This is part of the reason why the world hates the US. They see it as arrogance, that the US has the right to dictate who has nukes, and who doesn't. Even the cleverest/sneakest weasels/politicians of the US will be hardpressed to convince nations to disarm or not pursue nuclear goals, unless they themselves disarm. And God knows that will never happen. "The Jews are wealthier than many other people" means a lot considering that the vast majority of the world is poor.Jews are perhaps among the hardest working people in the world. If they are rich, it is not fate. It's because they played smart, and persistently. And of course a little bit dishonestly, because everyone knows that you can't get rich through pure honesty and integrity. Having nuclear weapons isn't a right. You can't seem to understand that. Having nuclear weapons is wrong and its regretful that the countries who already have them got them. Letting Iran get them too doesn't make it right...it just makes it more wrong. Palestinians are Arabs. That is an ethnic group, however it's the same one as the countries surrounding them.Gonna be impossibly difficult to make nations disarm when the US will never in their wildest dreams disarm. Once you got power like that, you're dead scared to lose it. It's all a power game. Politics.
AstroProdigy Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 Iran isn't an Arab nation. The president of Iran publicly calls for destroying the infidels along with prayers to destroy the infidels by the public. There is an element of power. It's not like Iran would FOR SURE use their nukes. Chances are they'd first try to use them to dominate the Middle East. No country should have nukes. However you can't stop the ones that have already made them from having them. Therefore, preventing any more countries from creating them is a top priority; especially one that would use them. The Jews took a little bit of neglected desert and turned it into an economic powerhouse. The Palestinians didn't do didly squat. Iran doesn't have that power yet. That's why they can't be allowed to create them. Other countries with nukes understand this. In fact, I don't think people trust Iran not to use the nukes. They may not ever use them against China, but if they launch nukes at the US and Israel and the US and Israel respond with nukes then we've all got a big mess. It is impossibly difficult to make nations disarm. That's why we can't let them get the nukes in the first place.
Witchie NL Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 Nukes-Oil blalbalbla. These things are useless pieces of power. They only make em to show eachother who's best. and if needed they use em.Comon NEWBS why dont they !@#$%^&*ing all destroy em.Make peace and concentrate on world wide threaths like Astroids. Instead of making world wide threaths themselves. This is acting like your a 8 yr old kid: MY POKEMON CARD IS MORE POWERFULL,, SO IM BETTER THEN YOU! In 50 years the oil and g!@#$%^&* would be nearly gone. They could have concentrated on developing Water powered cars or some other powersource which isnt using some fosilfuel. but now after the oil and g!@#$%^&* is almost fully used all country's would be fighting for oil and g!@#$%^&*. Then t!@#$%^&* go use their nukes to show em who's best. We need bombshelters in our !@#$%^&*ing backgardens. Then when an astroid the size of a house will crash into some full-of-nuke country (which destoys it) I will get outa my shelter and laugh as loud as I can coz its their OWN !@#$%^&*ING FOULT!! THEN I think they dont have the right to knock on their neighbours doors and ask them for help. Btw AstroProdigy: Change ya signature!
NBVegita Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 You realize that you will never be able to destroy all nukes. Its an idealistic notion.
Witchie NL Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 yep i know I cant. But there has to be someone or a way to be able to do so.
NBVegita Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 The problem is noone wants to give up that kind of power, and even if we all said we did, we'd all be hiding them somewhere. So publically we might not have any left anywhere, but secretly, they'd be still around.
Witchie NL Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 thats what i mean. thats just childish, OHH LOOK IM MORE POWERFULL WANA FIGHT A WAR?
NBVegita Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 I think the whole point of trying to prove who's more powerful is so that noone else will want to attack you. I mean normally that would be a reason to have a strong army.
AstroProdigy Posted September 13, 2006 Report Posted September 13, 2006 Anyone who says the US and other countries with nukes should give up their own nukes before they ask others not to make them obviously doesn't understand that a country with nukes is literally indestructable and can never be invaded because they can use their nuclear arsenal. That's why they'd never really give up their nuclear arsenals and that's why there shouldn't be even more countries with nukes because that creates more variables and increases the chances of mankinds nuclear annihalation. On top of that, only modern countries with democratically elected governments should be trusted with nukes because the people would not support using the nukes unless nukes are used on them because these people have lived the modern lifestyle and aren't so eager to end it all for religious reasons. No theocracies can be allowed nukes because crazy clerics who think the end of the world will bring them unlimited happiness aren't the kind of people I'd trust with the means to end the world. As I said before, having nukes is not a right.
Tiq Posted September 14, 2006 Report Posted September 14, 2006 Anyone who says the US and other countries with nukes should give up their own nukes before they ask others not to make them obviously doesn't understand that a country with nukes is literally indestructable and can never be invaded because they can use their nuclear arsenal. That's why they'd never really give up their nuclear arsenals and that's why there shouldn't be even more countries with nukes because that creates more variables and increases the chances of mankinds nuclear annihalation. On top of that, only modern countries with democratically elected governments should be trusted with nukes because the people would not support using the nukes unless nukes are used on them because these people have lived the modern lifestyle and aren't so eager to end it all for religious reasons. No theocracies can be allowed nukes because crazy clerics who think the end of the world will bring them unlimited happiness aren't the kind of people I'd trust with the means to end the world. As I said before, having nukes is not a right. THE WHIRL POOL: Superpower has nuke --------> Superpower sees budding world powers trying to get nukes ------------> Superpower says "no!" ------------> World power gets pissed off, and builds regardless. ------------> Superpower says "wtf?" ---------> World power says "You can't !@#$%^&*ing expect us to disarm if YOU'RE not going to. We want that power too." -----------> Superpower continues to try to get world power to disarm. ---------> More budding nations decide that they want that power, and build it. This is why anyone who gets nukes will never disarm willingly. Once you get that power, you sucked in, no matter how much the big boys tell you "no." Hence the name "THE WHIRL POOL" It's basically a battle of egos. No one is going to disarm until someone blows someone else up.
SeVeR Posted September 14, 2006 Author Report Posted September 14, 2006 Hate to say i told you so, but: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5346524.stm Astro, i'll get to your post in due time. -EDIT And here is the actual IAEA response to the US's report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/14_09_06_iaea.pdf
AstroProdigy Posted September 14, 2006 Report Posted September 14, 2006 Iran is a budding world power? That's such a joke. It's not even just that yet another country gets nukes. It's the fact that a non democratic, extremist country, that has a score to settle with the US for our own stupid actions trying to keep them oppressed by a corrupt dictator that caused them to turn to extremist clerics to rule them for an iron fist and has brainwashed it's people to call for the death of the west. We don't disagree that Kim Jong Il brainwashes his people so why is it so hard to believe that extremist Islamic dictators can brainwash their people? Ok Iran needs more time to create enough radioactive material for nukes. That's a good thing. I'm glad to hear it.
SeVeR Posted September 15, 2006 Author Report Posted September 15, 2006 Ok Iran needs more time to create enough radioactive material for nukes. That's a good thing. I'm glad to hear it. So the country that is making all the noise about nukes turns out to be full of !@#$%^&* and you still believe that they're making nukes but just "haven't got round to stuff the US is lying about yet". Who the !@#$%^&* do you think got you believing all this crap about nukes in the first place! Put the pieces together for Christ's sake!
Tiq Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 Iran is a budding world power? That's such a joke. It's not even just that yet another country gets nukes. It's the fact that a non democratic, extremist country, that has a score to settle with the US for our own stupid actions trying to keep them oppressed by a corrupt dictator that caused them to turn to extremist clerics to rule them for an iron fist and has brainwashed it's people to call for the death of the west. We don't disagree that Kim Jong Il brainwashes his people so why is it so hard to believe that extremist Islamic dictators can brainwash their people? Ok Iran needs more time to create enough radioactive material for nukes. That's a good thing. I'm glad to hear it. Of course Iran is a budding world power. Look at the paranoia and fear they are causing. Once you got nukes, you suddenly matter. Because you have a weapon that can kill millions. Can you really argue having that kind of weapon is not power? I suppose you can, but it would be rather stupid.
AstroProdigy Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 lol getting nukes isn't that hard, but the international community acts negatively to it. Iran just doesn't care because all the oil they sit on the world needs. You don't need nukes to matter. A strong economy, modern military, or other ways allow you to become a world power, but I guess nukes are easier when your country is too backwards to exert real influence except over other Shiites.
Tiq Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 I dunno, I always look at a World Power as a nation that has a large amount of influence over the Global Politics of the world, not just country that has a lot of military power.
Witchie NL Posted September 15, 2006 Report Posted September 15, 2006 lol getting nukes isn't that hard, Lol did you know you can build your own which blows away an whole street block easely?
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