SeVeR Posted August 20, 2006 Report Posted August 20, 2006 Astro: Last time i checked "Islam" wasn't a country and, therefore, "Islamic land" is a very faulty term.Does it matter, i'll change it to "the land of the Muslims (Islamic) people, namely the Palestinians, who lived there before the US/UN helped it become a Jewish state. Islamic land is a generalised term, not a faulty one. Islam was created based on war and forced conversions, therefore it should be given back to non Arabs. That area of the world has always been Arab and has for thousands of years been Muslim. You may have a case for African-Muslim countries but for the Middle East you have just as much of a case as people saying that America and Europe should be given back to non-Christians! Also, Christianity was created largely from war and forced conversions so let's give back land there too.Ok, so you took apart your own argument... so rather than wasting lives and resources with war, maybe certain Muslim countries should try helping their own impoverished people rather than trying to hold onto power by using radical Islam and calling for a distraction to their people elsewhere in the world. Ya know Astro, i actually agree. It may not have been obvious from my other posts and i'm so glad you brought this up. All i'm trying to say on this forum is that Muslims have a right to fight for what should be theirs, their cause is not a terrorist/evil one and they shouldn't be grouped under the terrorist name-tag by the !@#$%^&*umption that the US/Israel is all-good and completely right in everything they do. I don't think the Muslims should be fighting Israel but i'm not going to call them radical/extremist/terrorist/madmen just because they're fighting for their cause in that way. Maybe Middle Eastern countries should focus on modernising and diversifying rather than calling for extremist Jihad against a small group that's just trying to survive in the land they came from.Oh i think they are modernising a fair bit, especially in Iran, Saudi Arabia and some of the smaller countries around SA, also Turkey, Pakistan and North Africa are doing fairly well for themselves. I think the term Jihad may be a little strong to describe the opinions of Middle East countries. They're not actively at war with Israel and it is their right not to recognise it as a country. Lumping everyone who disagrees with you into a lump you call "ignorant Bush propaganda followers" Not so, i only say that when i read someone saying exactly the same thing as what i would designate a propagandist pro-Israel/US opinion based on the differing ideology and political motives of the Bush administration. Worthless: You attempted to compare yourself, a british !@#$%^&* that fails at life and the internet,Well firstly, i'm a physics graduate on a research year working at a DOE astrophysics laboratory in Tennessee, and have already been offered a post-graduate place at a top American university. So as for failing at life, i presume you meant failing to reach your level of ignorance? As for failing at the internet i really don't know what you mean. Is it even possible to fail at the internet? You must have made the internet a big part of your life if you believe you can fail at it. If thats the case then you've failed miserably at your life. THE LOGIC DOESN'T ADD UP BECAUSE YOU SIT YOUR !@#$%^&* IN BRITAIN AND ACT LIKE YOU KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND HEZBOLLAH LAUNCHES THOUSANDS OF MISSLES AT ISRAEL, THE TWO ARE NOT THE SAME. No the difference is they are fighting for what they believe. I on the other hand am not affected by whats going on in the Middle East and would rather do something more with my life than fight Israel. I still attempt to make my case though by criticising Israel and the US... that is my way of fighting. We still share many of the same beliefs, the only difference is in our ways of fighting for them. I tried to explain to you that if i lived in the Middle East, was an arab and still held these beliefs then i would effectively be a terrorist in the eyes of Israel and the US because i would be spreading the same message as people like Nasrallah and Ahmadinejad. I guess you don't agree or don't understand that this conflict is a difference of opinion and not a difference of good and evil. So shove it up your !@#$%^&* you smarmy british !@#$%^&*.Your inability to control your anger renders your opinions less relevent. I'm not saying your opinions are wrong, just when someone like you holds them it pretty much ruins the case for a lot of people trying to have a proper discussion from your side of the argument. Who knows but you can't blame the US when the UN divided the land up. The US might have wanted Israel created, but the UN CREATED IT. Dodge more mother!@#$%^&*er. And what influence do you think the US had (and still largely does) over the UN? Wait, wasn't it you just a few posts up that REFUSED TO CITE YOUR SOURCE FOR " I accused Bush of saying that everyone with opinions like mine should be branded with the terrorist tag that he uses to describe everyone against the US and Israel."If you want to spend hours reading transcripts of Bush's speeches then go ahead, i don't have the time or the willingness to do so. The quotes i gave you show that Bush has already branded everyone fighting against the US and Iraqi military within Iraq as terrorists. If i were dumb enough to pick up a gun and fight for what i believe in in that way then i would be a terrorist too. Don't you see that the terrorist tag is the West's way of de-humanising the enemy? you're just a !@#$%^&*ing idiot Again, if you're so concerned about failure then try to tone it down a little bit or you'll end up discreditting yourself. I'll take that bet, 100 bucks over paypal, reply if you're serious and we'll count em up and exchange paypal info.I'd rather not, not because i think i'd lose the bet, but because i'm not gonna waste my time setting up a paypal account. By all means count all the facts in the entire thread though... although i don't trust your opinion of what a fact is. Don't bother replying if all you're going to do is whine about me flaming you either, at this point I've taken just about all I can take of your baseless bull!@#$%^&*. If you've got opinions thats fine, but if you're stating facts GIVE US SOURCES TO BACK EM UP. If you've taken all you can take then stop posting. Don't try and tell me what to do, if you want me to stop posting here then stop replying to my posts. There's a logical argument for you... SVS: you wanted to just try to spin everything anyone says by citing your opinion as fact, that bores me so commence the trolling once more! Example please? Otherwise i've had enough of your inane comments which are themselves just your opinion being cited as fact (omg.. why do i keep finding your comments hypocritical!).
AstroProdigy Posted August 20, 2006 Report Posted August 20, 2006 It's like saying Christian land is a generalized term, doesn't mean all the Islamic takeovers of christian countries and forced conversions justifies any Christian group to attack Islamic countries whenever they want. Incase you haven't noticed, Christians did try to do this and it's called the Crusades. They lost so they got the land. Tough luck for "the Christian world", but doesn't mean they have the right to go reconquer it now. Also, incase you haven't noticed, Lebanon has Christians. It's not just a Muslim country. Also, many of the "borders" that were created were false ones. To say Palestinian is a modern term for a country. In my opinion, they're Arabs who speak Arabic and follow Islam. What's the difference between them and Jordan? They aren't REALLY a seperate ethnic group. Most of this is just a political ideal and Palestinian leaders like to call themselves an ethnic group so they have an excuse to say that they have no alternative and, therefore, they're excused to attack civilians. No that area hasn't always been Arab. Arabs conquered the area and slowly replaced the indegenous people with their own people and used Islam as an excuse. No I didn't take apart my argument. My argument is that with your argument we have to give back most of the world to other people. I don't know what YOU think my argument is... Iran and Saudi Arabia are happily staying dependant on oil and using the wealth to keep their dictatorships running and their people pacified. Other countries like Turkey, Pakistan, and Egypt are a different story and they run their countries differently from the core problematic areas. Bush isn't ALWAYS wrong. It's hard to say anyone is wrong on everything. If someone like that is found they should be given a medal for dumb !@#$%^&*ery. In the complicated times the Middle East is in, I don't think Lebanon has the right to look for absolutes. Yes Israel occupied Lebanon, but they pulled out in a show of good faith. Lebanon has no right to attack Israel out of the blue and using extremist fundamentalist organizations like Hezbollah to do the dirty work is along the lines of Sudan using Janjaweed to do the genocide for them and then saying "it's not our fault".
candygirl Posted August 21, 2006 Report Posted August 21, 2006 Of course people dispute land all over the world. Native Americans given small reservations makes it alright? So why is the West Bank and Gaza Strip not enough? The Native Americans are not at war with America and are happy to live on their land. If they were not happy then we'd need to do something about it, but its been quiet for the last century or so so i don't think there needs to be anything done. Muslims are constantly warring with Israel and its not just extremists. You think there happy? Time will tell.
sil Posted August 21, 2006 Report Posted August 21, 2006 lmao this topic amuses me so. Wait, wasn't it you just a few posts up that REFUSED TO CITE YOUR SOURCE FOR " I accused Bush of saying that everyone with opinions like mine should be branded with the terrorist tag that he uses to describe everyone against the US and Israel."If you want to spend hours reading transcripts of Bush's speeches then go ahead, i don't have the time or the willingness to do so. So basically what you are saying, Sever, is you don't have the quote, you don't know where to find the quote because you pretty much made it up. Don't you think that if Bush made that statement it would be the easiest thing in the world to just google and find? I think it would be a pretty popular topic if it was actually stated by him. Let me try to find it, no luck yet. Why don't you give it a try for me please? you wanted to just try to spin everything anyone says by citing your opinion as fact, that bores me so commence the trolling once more!Example please? Otherwise i've had enough of your inane comments which are themselves just your opinion being cited as fact (omg.. why do i keep finding your comments hypocritical!). He doesn't need to cite examples in all honestly. Just look at every post you have made. It is all filled with your opinion. What you believe should be true. That doesn't make it fact. Sorry to burst your bubble, Sever, but just because you believe it, doesn't make it a fact. Now to be a little on topic, I pretty much agree with SVS and Worthless and Wonderer on nearly all their posts. It is the Lebanonese governments' duty to control, or at least even attempt to control the terrorist group, and if that fails seek help *gasp* in that endeavor. A definition really isn't good enough to describe the term government and what it represents really. It is just too weak. It really must be presented in the form of a conceptual theory in order to understand why the goverment is responsible to control and regulate those who live within its boundaries. However, I do not have to desire to actually present that to you as you probably don't even know the difference. But if you don't believe me, then you must have a skewed idea of what government is and I am not sure what to tell you. Regardless and what either of us believe a government is responsible for, they have failed to control the hostile group within their country and allowed them to continue their acts of destruction. And are now feeling to repercussions of their negligence. It is naive to think that a country that has been in a corner fighting for a large portion of its existence would not retaliate, especially in greater force. It's called a deterrent. Israel is showing that any attack against it will be met with much greater force. Any normal country would do the same. As stated earlier (by SVS I think, not sure, don't care to look for sure) Israel should not be held to any higher standards than anyone else just because they are in a hot zone. On a side note, depending on which book you read, the Israelites lived there first. Which book is right? (granted I don't know which book actually says otherwise, but I am sure it exists). Guess we won't know until I invent a time travel car based on a saturn, yay! Anyway, I doubt I will be visiting this topic much. Feel free to reply in much the same kind you did before, Sever. I am sure it will be equally repe!@#$%^&*ive, boring, and nothing more than amusement and a nuisance to those that can actually consider the other side of an argument and debate (and also actually cite your sources for quotes ffs. you spent the time to make 20 or so posts, you can at least spend to them to cite quotes).
X`terrania Posted August 21, 2006 Report Posted August 21, 2006 Did the Israelites ever read the bible?
SeVeR Posted August 21, 2006 Report Posted August 21, 2006 Astro: t's like saying Christian land is a generalized term, doesn't mean all the Islamic takeovers of christian countries and forced conversions justifies any Christian group to attack Islamic countries whenever they want. Incase you haven't noticed, Christians did try to do this and it's called the Crusades. They lost so they got the land. Tough luck for "the Christian world", but doesn't mean they have the right to go reconquer it now. Also, incase you haven't noticed, Lebanon has Christians. It's not just a Muslim country. Also, many of the "borders" that were created were false ones. To say Palestinian is a modern term for a country. In my opinion, they're Arabs who speak Arabic and follow Islam. What's the difference between them and Jordan? They aren't REALLY a seperate ethnic group. Most of this is just a political ideal and Palestinian leaders like to call themselves an ethnic group so they have an excuse to say that they have no alternative and, therefore, they're excused to attack civilians.Look, my point was made a while ago and its simple to understand: If there is a war going on then we should take a side (or not get involved) based on who lived on the land while it was at peace last. There is a conflict between Israel and Palestine that needs resolving. There is not a conflict between Anglo-Saxons and Normandy or Vikings and Celts or Crusaders and Muslims that needs to be resolved. In lands of peace there is nothing to solve and no side to take, in Israel there is a friggin war going on where we are supporting one side already!... if it isn't already obvious for you to understand. I can't make it any simpler and i can't see how you can disagree without saying that we should equally be going to war all over the world to give land back to people from thousands of years ago. There has to be some sort of time-scale or condiition otherwise you end up with people invading anyone they want and saying "The Vikings did it and we aren't giving the land back now". That condition logically is peace and whether it has been established. Israel is not at peace! How could it be any simpler? Lebanon has no right to attack Israel out of the blue and using extremist fundamentalist organizations like Hezbollah to do the dirty work Ok everyone who is being an !@#$%^&* on this thread and accusing me of passing opinion off as fact look no further than this quote. What evidence is there that Lebanon is using Hezbollah to do their dirty work? If you can't answer then you all need to shut the !@#$%^&* up. Astro, you still seem to think that Lebanon attacked Israel rather than a military organisation that is fighting Israel for reasons that are NOT limitted the occupation of Lebanon over the past few decades. They hate Israel and not just because Israel occupied Lebanon but for their very existence - meaning that they are very much apart of the Palestinian conflict. That's why a few posts back i made that very short post. Sil: So basically what you are saying, Sever, is you don't have the quote, you don't know where to find the quote because you pretty much made it up.Firstly, oh !@#$%^&*ing great another one. Secondly no i never said i had the quote and never said that Bush said those exact words. I said that Bush is giving that message out by labelling everyone who fights America as a terrorist and i certainly have proof of that. He doesn't need to cite examples in all honestly. Just look at every post you have made. It is all filled with your opinion. What you believe should be true. That doesn't make it fact. Sorry to burst your bubble, Sever, but just because you believe it, doesn't make it a fact. Actually i believe almost nothing to be factual. My opinion is mine alone and it is impossible to tell whether it is the truth. My very philosophy is that we can never really know what truth is. What i'm trying to do is spread that philosophy by casting reasonable doubt over these people who blindly believe in the peaceful, good-willed nature of Israel. So if you like i'm attacking other peoples versions of the truth. What i say i would never p!@#$%^&* of as truth. I'm sorry it seems that way but writing the word "probably" or "possibly" before everything is tedious... i hope you understand. Now to be a little on topic, I pretty much agree with SVS and Worthless and Wonderer on nearly all their posts. It is the Lebanonese governments' duty to control, or at least even attempt to control the terrorist group, and if that fails seek help *gasp* in that endeavor. A definition really isn't good enough to describe the term government and what it represents really. It is just too weak. It really must be presented in the form of a conceptual theory in order to understand why the goverment is responsible to control and regulate those who live within its boundaries. However, I do not have to desire to actually present that to you as you probably don't even know the difference. But if you don't believe me, then you must have a skewed idea of what government is and I am not sure what to tell you.Agreed, but above all it must protect its citizens from civil war. Sever. I am sure it will be equally repe!@#$%^&*ive, boring, and nothing more than amusement and a nuisance to those that can actually consider the other side of an argument and debate (and also actually cite your sources for quotes ffs. you spent the time to make 20 or so posts, you can at least spend to them to cite quotes). I'm repetive because i'm replying to you with the same responses i did to the other 3 or 4 posters that were then left unanswered... so the one being repetive here is you for bringing up the same answered points all over again. But that's my opinion of course, i'm sure you'll disagree because it makes you look like a hypocrite. Its become a trend in this topic: pro-Israeli posters taking solace in the comparable opinions of others and not answering my points, instead using dismissive unprovable insults. Its why this topic has been so frustrating, and now to top it all off i'm being accused of using too much opinion, its an absolute joke when almost every argument stops with a dismissive opinionated insult that doesn't answer anything.
AstroProdigy Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and has wide support in Lebanon. Any idiot can see that Lebanon's policy of don't do anything and don't even condemn Hezbollah means that they want Hezbollah to do what they're doing. Therefore, Hezbollah is being used as a tool by the Lebanese government to attack Israel and then claim innocence. It's like the Sudanese government claiming innocence over the actionsof the Janjaweed, but doing nothing about it while the Janjaweed do their dirty work. Lebanon has no right to hate Israel for their existence it's like Britain hating France for their very existence; it's irrational. I'm very disappointed in your opinion that war is the only way to get your point across and that your cause isn't just unless you're killing people. Opinions like that are what cause people to choose war over peaceful resolutions and have caused and continue to cause far too many deaths worldwide.
SeVeR Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 Astro, wtf? I actually agreed with you a couple of posts back that WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER. If i thought that fighting was the only way to get my point across then i wouldn't be here typing, i'd be in Israel fighting. I think the Muslims are wrong for fighting Israel but i only believe they are wrong in the way they choose to fight.... its the complete opposite of what you just accused me off. I think they are right to want Israel gone so i only believe in their cause, not the way they choose to fight for it. However i'm still sympathetic because living in the Middle East would make it all hit home alot harder and rational individuals may be more tempted to fight Israel given their location and the impact on their lives. Lebanon has no right to hate Israel for their existence it's like Britain hating France for their very existence; it's irrational.That is a terrible comparison and an unproven one. Its terrible because Israel has only existed for 60 years and there has never been peace there because throughout its ENTIRE existence most Islamic countries and their populations deny its right to exist. Its unproven because you don't know that Lebanon "hates" Israel. Lebanon isn't sending their army up against Israel. Hezbollah on the other hand does hate Israel and Hezbollah is not a faction of the Lebanese army and is not commanded by the Lebanese government. Hezbollah is an organisation that functions across the Middle East and hates Israel because they don't believe it should exist. They have every right to hate Israeal, they've hated Israel since it was first created which makes it a terrible comparison for Britain and France. Does time make the hatred of Muslims for Israel less valid/relevent/important? Of course it doesn't. Did Hezbollah or similar organisations have no right to hate Israel 60 years ago at its creation? Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government and has wide support in Lebanon. Any idiot can see that Lebanon's policy of don't do anything and don't even condemn Hezbollah means that they want Hezbollah to do what they're doing. Therefore, Hezbollah is being used as a tool by the Lebanese government to attack Israel and then claim innocence. It's like the Sudanese government claiming innocence over the actionsof the Janjaweed, but doing nothing about it while the Janjaweed do their dirty work. Hezbollah have a representative in the government because Lebanon decided to be a demcracy. Is this the price they have to pay now?... People accusing them of being a terrorist state? What makes you think that Lebanon is using Hezbollah as a tool though? It's still completely unproven. If you were head of a powerful militant organisation and got elected into a government would you then just p!@#$%^&* control of your organisation over to the government and become their tool? I really do doubt it, and if anything is an example of one of your opinions being passed off by you as fact.
Aileron Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 Hey, Hezbollah is Iran's tool and no-one else's. Well, here we go again with the ceasefire and UN peacekeepers...maybe they will succeed for once, but I'm not counting on it.
SeVeR Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 Yes Iran has a much larger influence over Hezbollah but i doubt they take orders from the Iranian leadership. They may do, they may not, to say so either way would be another big !@#$%^&*umption but maybe not as uneducated as saying Hezbollah is a tool of Lebanon. I hope the UN peacekeeping force works and France stops sitting on their nuts. However the hatred will still remain and so will Hezbollah. A couple of things that could help the hatred in the long run would be to give the Palestinians the land that they were originally given by the UN in 1947 back. And secondly America should stop their unconditional support for Israel everytime something like this comes up... like when America originally went for a much more pro-Israeli version of the ceasefire agreement, but thats just one example from many.
AstroProdigy Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 Well then you're agreeing that war is not the answer and at the same time saying that war is the only way that you can get your message across. The Native Americans aren't at war with America so you just assume they're all nice and happy with what they've got even though they are still trying to persue peaceful means to get land back. Hezbollah is part of Lebanon and it's their responsibility to address the problems allowing for Hezbollah's existance and/or extremism. I'd like to see proof of Hezbollah (or the Shiite Lebanese) hating Israel since its creation. From what I've read Hezbollah was created as a result of Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon which ENDED. Hezbollah functions in Lebanon not across the Middle East. Please since you think Israel should be wiped off the map, but the people not killed where would you have them go? Hezbollah is a party in the government which means they need to be more responsible with their actions and if they refuse to do so they need to be taken down. Attacking Israel is how you keep yourself from becoming a tool? The hatred will continue until the leaders of certain Muslim countries stop hyping their people up on destroying Israel to distract them from their lack of rights and poor living conditions. It will also continue until Islam starts to go through reform like Christianity did hundreds of years ago.
LearJett+ Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 A couple of things that could help the hatred in the long run would be to give the Palestinians the land that they were originally given by the UN in 1947 back. And secondly America should stop their unconditional support for Israel everytime something like this comes up... like when America originally went for a much more pro-Israeli version of the ceasefire agreement, but thats just one example from many. Giving the land back to Palestine is an even worse idea than giving the land to Israel in the first place. The jews and the muslims in that area will still continue to hate eachother. The Palestinians lost the land fair and square and need to quit their !@#$%^&*ing. Lebanon could not control the people within its borders from hurting Israel in some way or another -- that is fact. Of course the United States will support the only true democracy in the middle east in putting a collar on a terroristic organization. And the US isn't helping Lebanon at all, right? 230 million dollars is nothing, right?
SeVeR Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 Well then you're agreeing that war is not the answer and at the same time saying that war is the only way that you can get your message across.Again wtf? When did i say that war is the only way to get the message across? I'm saying that war is the wrong way to get the message across. The Native Americans aren't at war with America so you just assume they're all nice and happy with what they've got even though they are still trying to persue peaceful means to get land back. And i agree with their cause too. If they are still unhappy with their situation then we must decide what side to take. I agree with them in the same way that i agree with the Palestinians but i commend the approach of the Indians. Hezbollah is part of Lebanon and it's their responsibility to address the problems allowing for Hezbollah's existance and/or extremism.And they're a part of Iran, Syria and other Middle East countries too. They don't take orders from Lebanon! When will you understand this? Its like you've convinced yourself that this is a fact to justify what's happened to Lebanon. Its not a fact and you shouldn't be passing it off as one. Please since you think Israel should be wiped off the map, but the people not killed where would you have them go? America has plenty of room. I'd like to see proof of Hezbollah (or the Shiite Lebanese) hating Israel since its creation.Hezbollah wasn't around back then. Thats why i said "or similar organisations" because i knew you'd try and twist this one around. From what I've read Hezbollah was created as a result of Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon which ENDED. True, what does this prove about their objectives? !@#$%^&* all, stop passing opinion off as fact. Attacking Israel is how you keep yourself from becoming a tool?Who knows? If Lebanon wants Israel attacked and Hezbollah takes those orders then they are a tool and your !@#$%^&*umption that this is a fact is justified. If they attack Israel without orders from Lebanon then they are working more independently or in cahoots with Iran/Syria ---(Hint: Other countries where Hezbollah operates). It will also continue until Islam starts to go through reform like Christianity did hundreds of years ago. True, the more educated the better.
AstroProdigy Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 You keep repeating that they're still at war with Israel so the problem is still going and that Native Americans aren't at war so they must be happy. Honestly you're blatantly stating that war is the only way to get your message across. I'm not sure you really know anything about Native Americans since you first state that they're happy with what they got. Basically, if you are at war you will get publicity and you still have a cause, but if you aren't using violence people shouldn't bother paying attention to your cause?? You show this with your ignorance of Native Americans. Hezbollah isn't really a part of Syria or Iran, they take orders and get weapons from them because it suits Iran and Syria. Hezbollah is a Lebanon based organization. What you don't understand is that Lebanon wasn't even trying to do anything about it! It's like Americans in Texas launching illegal raids on Mexico and the American government going "well it's not the government so we'll allow it". You think America can suddenly absorb over 5 million people into it's country?? We're not gonna put ourselves that much out of our way and hurt our own country to give back land to people who will probably go and try to hijack our planes after. I said Hezbollah OR any Shiite Lebanese organization hating Israel. Shiite Lebanese WERE around back then. I've showed you that Hezbollah's objectives WERE MET IN 2000 AND THEY'RE STILL THROWING !@#$%^&* AT ISRAEL! THERE IS NO GAIN TO SHIITE LEBANESE AT CAUSING MORE WAR AND THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL BRINGS LEBANON ZERO GAIN! THEY DO THIS BECAUSE THEY NEED A CAUSE TO HOLD ONTO POWER JUST LIKE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT USE THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL AS A FRONT TO OPPRESS THEIR PEOPLE AND HOLD ONTO POWER! CAN'T YOU COMPREHEND THIS? How many times do I have to say that Hezbollah is ONLY supported by Syria and Iran. They don't control parts of the population the way they do in Lebanon. I think Lebanon had some resentment left over from old Israeli occupation and were willing to allow this because of it. I'd say attack Syria considering they only recently pulled out and they were a serious crutch on Lebanon and are still trying to regain control, but hey I'm not an irrational extremist terrorist organization. I'll attack the ones who aren't Muslim.
SeVeR Posted August 22, 2006 Report Posted August 22, 2006 Hezbollah isn't really a part of Syria or Iran, they take orders and get weapons from them because it suits Iran and Syria. Hezbollah is a Lebanon based organization.Right, so the government isn't ordering Hezbollah to attack Israel are they! I've showed you that Hezbollah's objectives WERE MET IN 2000 AND THEY'RE STILL THROWING !@#$%^&* AT ISRAEL! Then you're an idiot for thinking that was their only objective. THEY DO THIS BECAUSE THEY NEED A CAUSE TO HOLD ONTO POWER JUST LIKE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT USE THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL AS A FRONT TO OPPRESS THEIR PEOPLE AND HOLD ONTO POWER! CAN'T YOU COMPREHEND THIS?You seem to think that the people they have power over DON'T want the destruction of Israel. Another ignorant !@#$%^&*umption. I'm not sure you really know anything about Native Americans since you first state that they're happy with what they got. True, i don't. Bad example, sorry.
AstroProdigy Posted August 23, 2006 Report Posted August 23, 2006 There's a huge difference between wanting something and having a credible reason to attempt to get it done. Even with Palestine, the term Palistinian is really a manufactured term. Palestinians are for the most part Muslim Arabs. Let's be serious. The term Palestinian is used to incite feelings that it's a sovereign nation state being destroyed when it's really a splinter Arab country getting reduced. The people losing their homes is the real problem, not the "Palestinian ethnicity". I'd support the West Bank and Gaza Strip to be merged with Jordan which would help the people there, but that would just cause for a bigger base to attack Israel, a moderate Democratic country. By the way, the refugee crisis is a result of Arab countries meddling with the support of Palestinian Arabs to expel the Jews and it ended badly for them. Tough luck.
candygirl Posted August 26, 2006 Report Posted August 26, 2006 the U.S. State Department is investigating whether Israel's use of the American-made bombs violates secret agreements made between the two nations about how the weapons can be used. News link here
Greased_Lightning Posted August 26, 2006 Report Posted August 26, 2006 lol that's funny. I don't see other groups investigating themselves over how bullets from AK-47s are used. It's a bomb (or artillery). Pretty self-evident how they would be used. But yeah, cluster munitions like that with that kind of failure rate shouldn't be used in high civilian concentration areas as it's just like land mines. Since there are precision bombs available, they shouldn't resort to almost carpet bombing areas because they know that eventually civilians will have to re-inhabit those places.
SeVeR Posted August 27, 2006 Report Posted August 27, 2006 Large numbers of the cluster bombs have been found south of the Litani River, about 29 kilometres from the border with Israel, as well as in northern cities, such as Nabatiyeh and Hasbaya. Israel denies using the bombs illegally, and accuses Hezbollah of firing rockets into Israel from civilian areas. Interesting, i doubt a single rocket was launched from Northern Lebanon since the range of those things would make hitting Israel impossible. Its good to see the US doing something like this, maybe this kind of impartiality will help ease tensions between the US and nations like Iran.
AstroProdigy Posted August 27, 2006 Report Posted August 27, 2006 Incase you haven't noticed, Southern Lebanon has civilian areas too. That's where they say they are being launched and the northern areas are where they are being stored. Hezbollah uses Southern Lebanon like a battlefield and Nothern Lebanon like a storage warehouse. This has nothing to do with Iran's animosity towards the US, but it's a nice cover.
SeVeR Posted August 28, 2006 Report Posted August 28, 2006 This has nothing to do with Iran's animosity towards the US, but it's a nice cover.Then what would you say the reasons are for Iran's animosity towards the US? I would call the US bias in the region one reason from many. Are you going to reduce Iran's hatred of the US to something unprovoked and irrational in the same way you've done with Hezbollah's hatred of Israel? (by saying Hezbollah's objectives were met in 2000, when they so clearly have other objectives) ... So do tell, what is this a "cover" for? Incase you haven't noticed, Southern Lebanon has civilian areas too. That's where they say they are being launched and the northern areas are where they are being stored. Hezbollah uses Southern Lebanon like a battlefield and Nothern Lebanon like a storage warehouse. Firstly i was only talking about Northern Lebanon because thats a place where no rockets could have possibly been launched from, yet it was cluster bombed. Do you have evidence that "Northern Lebanon" is a storage warehouse? I thought that was the excuse for bombing South Beirut to the ground? Never mind... this is just a matter of who you trust, i don't trust Israel and you obviously do, if Israel says they only targetted rocket storage bases in the North rather than Christian villages with nothing to do with the conflict then then you'll believe them, i won't.
AstroProdigy Posted August 29, 2006 Report Posted August 29, 2006 The United States has toppled the regimes of two of it's neighbors and now they would like us to leave so they can consolidate control over the region. You don't see Israel calling for the destruction of Lebanon and that is a huge difference. Lebanon had their legitimate objectives met. The calls for the destruction of a neighbor state wouldn't be tolerated in other parts of the world, but here it's ok? Don't feed me that "they stole the land" and as long as Palestinians "are violent and warring" then the destruction of Israel is still a legitimate possibility. Israel has no stake at targetting Christian villages in Lebanon. Use your brain. Christians are the ones Israel would least want to attack since they're probably the most progressive of the groups in Lebanon. If Israel attacked Christian villages it was either because Hezbollah groups were operating withing civilian areas or they were mistaken. Israel isn't re!@#$%^&*ed they don't purposely look to screw themselves over. If you look at a map of airstrikes in Lebanon you'd see that they are massively concentrated in the South and in areas of Lebanon dominated by Hezbollah. This is hardly a war on Christians. I'm not saying the Israeli military was working as efficiently as they should have restricting civilian casualties, but they weren't targetting civilian areas for no reason because there's no point to trying to kill civilians when you aren't even working at anywhere remotely near a genocide so THERE'S NO POINT OF ISRAEL DELIBERATELY TARGETTING CIVILIANS FOR NO REASON!! They're trying to get a lasting ceasefire now although I'm sure you wouldn't mind if rocket launches on Israeli cities and towns again.
Yoink Posted August 29, 2006 Report Posted August 29, 2006 This thread is full of party opinions and those who fight to follow the party, rather than finding their own conclusions. It's really sad.
AstroProdigy Posted August 29, 2006 Report Posted August 29, 2006 I don't even understand what you're saying yoink this isn't a Republican versus Democrat issue. This isn't me following my party because I think you're saying my party is the Republicans which it ISN'T.
masscarnage Posted August 30, 2006 Report Posted August 30, 2006 i didnt think id be posting on these forums but when i saw this i had to vent. Sever has made many good points but mostly ALL of you have missed the ENTIRE point of why hizbollah really did steal the 2 soldiers. Isreal the TRUE terrorists captured 1000 lebanese citizens about 2 decades ago. Isreal NEVER did leave lebanon in 2000 they only partially left they were still there in the south. Hizbollah wanted to make a trade of the 2 soldiers for their 1000 comrads. These problems arent 5 weeks old they are over 20 years old and they all started with isreal. Hizbollah is protecting their land that isreal is attacking. To all the reASSS that believe hizbollah is the terrorist orginization GOOD JOB YOU HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFULLY BRAINWASHED BY THE BIASED AMERICAN NEWS. Hizbollah purposely didnt attack civillians in the numbers isreal has, Hizbollah has aimed at military targets and has truly won the war. Not only have they given isreal a beating they have the strongest support from all muslims around the world for beeing able to stand up for what truly is right and put a stop to the terrorist state that is isreal. The best journalist i have seen to this day is George Galloway if you are interested go to youtube.com search for George Galloway watch his 10 minute interview on Sky news were he truly lets the isrealy reporter have it and humiliate isreal on their own news station by showing the truths and how stupid their own news casts are. --American/Lebanese citezin who was in lebanon during the fighting and only got out 3 weeks ago.
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