»1587200 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Posted July 12, 2006 BEIRUT' date=' Lebanon — The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them.[/quote']More...Thoughts? I know we have some players from Isreal (I'm not sure if they frequent the forums) so what's your take on this?
»Blocks Posted July 13, 2006 Report Posted July 13, 2006 This is quickly becoming very ugly. Israel made a very poor decision in attacking the Beirut airport.
Wonderer Posted July 13, 2006 Report Posted July 13, 2006 Perhaps people should quit kidnapping their soldiers and return them. We wouldn't stand for that crap if they had abducted a US soldier. We'd roll up in there with our covert teams and advanced artillery and blow them to !@#$%^&*.
»Blocks Posted July 13, 2006 Report Posted July 13, 2006 No we wouldn't.I hope you are right. And even if we did, that doesn't make it acceptable.
SeVeR Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Once again Israel uses a disproportionate amount of force with no regard for civilians. Attacking the airport was an act of "terrorism" equivalent to that of any other group that has destroyed civilian infrastructure. Deployment of battleships seems completely unnecessary. This appears to be an act of war against a nation for the simple reason that they cannot control a terrorist group that operates within their borders. What is the UN doing to deal with this "rogue state" that has eagerly attacked another country in an act of "terrorism"? I doubt Bush would phrase it that way...
Greased_Lightning Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Israel has really gone too far with this action and then they act all surprised and outraged when they get hit with rocket strikes in their cities and their ships. I tuned into the TV coverage at three times today (spaced several hours apart) and they kept harping on the same grandmother and son in Israel who were killed. Then they just briefly mentioned the fact that Israel's attacks had killed an estimated 60 or more CIVILIANS. I know that we (the US) have been friends and supporters of Israel for a long time but enough is enough. Three soldiers' kidnapping does not justify a full-blown attack, especially when even Israel says the soldiers aren't being harmed. Time to use some common sense with the Israelis and Palestinians and Syria and Lebannon. When you have two kids fighting, send them to their corners or spank them. Get some UN troops in there to forcibly keep these two apart. Or put sanctions on both groups (but especially Israel in this case). This ASSS getting out of hand.
Wonderer Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Let’s put this into perspective. You’re an elected sheriff in your county. Then someone comes in and kidnaps one of your family members and threatens to kill them if you don't let go of 1000 drug dealers, rapists, murders, etc... Now you have a fair idea of where they are as you know who did it. You telling me you’re not going to try and get your family member back? You’re just going to sit on your hands and do nothing? Or are you going to be a dumb!@#$%^&* and let out the criminals? No, you’re going to go after them, your going to hunt them down until you find that person and bring them home. And if they are killed you'll hunt them just as hard until they are either dead or in jail. This is exactly what Israel is doing so you can just go !@#$%^&* yourselves. If the Palestinian, Lebanese, or Syrian governments cared for their people they would be doing a great deal more to put down these militant groups. But they don't do anything about it. They leave them in power and let them walk the streets and get pissed off when someone else has had enough and decides to retaliate. I feel horrible for those people as the average citizen doesn't share their opinions. But I blame their local governments for allowing them to perform these acts.
AstroProdigy Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 I hope Syria attacks Israel and Israel retaliates so Iran takes action by sending troops to attack Israel through Iraq giving the United States an excuse for war with Iran with European backing and Russia and China are forced to protect their oil interests in Iran. World War 3 yay!!!!! We're all gonna die!
»Ducky Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 That's silly. We don't need a valid excuse to attack other countires. We make them up just fine.
Greased_Lightning Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 If you're a sheriff in a town you don't blow up a gymnasium filled with ordinary people on the chance that the people who had something to do with the kidnapping might be in there. They have 3 of their soldiers kidnapped. The two they say Hezbollah (sp?) have are said to be in good condition. Not dead. Therefore... THERE IS NO !@#$%^&*ING EXCUSE FOR THE DEATHS OF MORE THAN 100 INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN A 'WHO'S !@#$%^&* IS BIGGER' CONTEST
candygirl Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Reports said the dead included a family of four children, their mother, and her husband's uncle. They were vacationing in Aitarun, just 50 kilometres south of Beirut when there home was bombed by Israel's air strikes. Looks like this sheriff is nuts
quickspy Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 You see the fact that many people like to ignore is that if the Israeli troops were returned there everything would be fine. Kidnapping is not a just way to futher your agenda. I think Israel is making this point very clear.
Spyed Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Alot of rich countries are withdrawing their people now.
Greased_Lightning Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Yes, if the troops were returned everything would have been fine. Unfortunately Israel decided to respond in a totally disproportionate manner. This will only hurt them in the long run as it makes great business for the radical terrorists who are willing to strap bombs to themselves. It would have been much more effective and acceptable had Israel just conducted small raids or special operations to try and recover their troops. Typical behavior though, they used a hammer when a screwdriver was necessary and then wonder why it's harder to fix.
Wonderer Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 They are making it clear that that won't screw around and that any terrorist acts will have heavy repercussions.
Bajan Posted July 18, 2006 Report Posted July 18, 2006 Israel really isn't a country you want to get into a fude with.. With what that country has been through for so many years now, they won't take crap from anyone, especially from small millitant groups from Lebannon. In my opinion Israel is the best armed force there is, i mean this in tactics and experiance, not force and power. Its just there way of saying "Don't F**k with us."
Drake7707 Posted July 18, 2006 Report Posted July 18, 2006 Alot of rich countries are withdrawing their people now. yup, french and belgian ppl are evacuated from there a while ago. I don't think it's the only reason that israel attacks lebanon, it might just be a cover up, just like usa in iraq. Who wants to do a full scale attack on a country where more ppl will die (on both sides) for rescueing a few hostages, which are probably already killed because of the attack.
Aileron Posted July 19, 2006 Report Posted July 19, 2006 Sorry for my long than usual absence...I've been pretty busy this summer. All acts of war are responded to by disproportionate force. Lebanon isn't being invaded over the lives of a few soldiers. Lebanon is being invaded because they dared to violate the sovreign rights of a neighboring country with an act of blatent aggression. All wars in history were ignited by events that were smaller in cost than the war that followed. Its merely the fact that one nation cannot afford to let another nation get away with it due to long term consequences. Basically, if Israel just let Lebanon capture their soldiers without reprisal, that would encourage them and others to do it again and again until the cost of complacency rises until its above the cost of the war. I just have to wonder what the Lebanise consider as the lofty reason for bringing this upon themselves. Couldn't they have just done the smart thing and leave Israel alone?
SeVeR Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Lebanon is being invaded because they dared to violate the sovreign rights of a neighboring country with an act of blatent aggression.Hezbollah is not the same as Lebanon. Just like an international civilian airport is not the same as a terrorist training camp. Just like all the civilians who've been killed are not terrorists. All wars in history were ignited by events that were smaller in cost than the war that followed. Its merely the fact that one nation cannot afford to let another nation get away with it due to long term consequences. Soldiers get kidnapped all the time! Israeli soldiers get killed all the time! Last time some soldiers got killed i didn't remember Israel bombing civilian infrastructure in a "sovereign" country that is not a representative of the terrorist group that operates within its borders. In some ways i hope Syria and Iran show the same force to Israel as Israel shows to its Islamic neighbours. But of course then the USA would intervene. Israel is like the spoilt little rich kid who throws insults around because he knows he can get away with it, in this case though the insults are bombs. Its time someone put them in their place... but i'd much rather the international community recognised the USA's bias in the region and their initial crimes for the creation of Israel or we'd end up with a world war. However.... America may be too overstretched in Iraq and the time for Syria and Iran to strike may be upon us. Wonderor: You talk as if this is an innocent family who have lost beloved relatives... what you don't do in that situation is kill 60 or more innocent people just to get those beloved relatives back. Are the lives of Lebonese civilians completely worthless to you?
Wonderer Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Absolutly not. As i said, i feel horrible for the citizens. I truley wish that their civilians are able to get to saftey and avoid being a part of the conflict. But this is the fault of their government for allowing it to happen. Rather than taking steps over time to manage their own security they allowed these terrorists to gain strength. The effect being there is now a terrorist organisation playing border patrol along their border with Israel. If you leave criminals and murderers alone to play cop they are going to abuse it. This is what their government has done. It was just a matter of time before it exploded in their face. I don't blame Israel for getting tired of this and dealing with the problem. They have made it clear that if their government will get their people returned and take over security along the border they'll stop the attack. Neither demand seems unreasonable nor unexpected. I understand the predicament they face. They have major groups who don't get along in conflict and as a result are worried that if they try to have their army take over security it'll cause a civil war. But that doesn't excuse them for ignoring the problem. It took time for them to arm up, had the government addressed this problem 5 years ago they wouldn't have this issue. I find it quite believable that their goverment is secretly supporting Israel's actions as it may be the only way they can regain control. If you look at the problem they were facing another civil war. Now Israel is taking on the brunt of it and as a result the UN will likely deploy peacekeepers along the border. This not only allows them to avoid civil war, but gain international support in finally securing their country. If you think about it, why haven't they moved their military in to take control? Why have they not declared open war on a country that is openly attacking them? Why have they not called on Syria and Iran to step in and put a stop to the attacks? Take some time to consider these questions and then reread my comments above.
Greased_Lightning Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Uhm...because if they did go open war they'd get their !@#$%^&*es pounded? If Syria came in they would suffer because the U.S. would intervene in that case. Maybe not with ground troops but definitely with airstrikes, and we've all seen how effective U.S. air power can be. Iran is not suicidal enough to cross into and across Iraq to go after Israel. They do have a large army but it is not nearly as sophisticated as Israel or the U.S.'s. That action would only make the US commit to battle and there would be heavy casualties on both sides. Iran would go back decades in terms of economic development and would get nothing to show for it. Israel's strategy in this is really going to backfire as this will give Hezbollah and other terrorist groups a great recruiting tool. Maybe if they hadn't targeted civilians and the infrastructure it wouldn't be so bad, but when you make everyday life miserable for regular people, they are a lot more likely to hate you and find a mechanism for that hate in terrorism. Israel should've stuck to legitimate military/paramilitary targets. Not airports and power stations and highways. They'll reap what they sow not only now but over the next 10, 20, 30 years as a new generation of suicide bombers steps up. And what will Israel gain from this? Probably nothing but getting their kidnapped soldiers executed. Israel is not Magnavox, they are not smart, very smart.
Dr.Worthless Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Israel's strategy in this is really going to backfire as this will give Hezbollah and other terrorist groups a great recruiting tool. Maybe if they hadn't targeted civilians and the infrastructure it wouldn't be so bad, but when you make everyday life miserable for regular people, they are a lot more likely to hate you and find a mechanism for that hate in terrorism. Israel should've stuck to legitimate military/paramilitary targets. Not airports and power stations and highways. They'll reap what they sow not only now but over the next 10, 20, 30 years as a new generation of suicide bombers steps up. And what will Israel gain from this? Probably nothing but getting their kidnapped soldiers executed. *Newsflash* Hezbollah has no problem recruiting people as it is, and they've got the financial backing to be a major threat. Saying this will backfire because it will be a recruiting tool is failed logic, they've already got a big enough pool to recruit from. *Newsflash* When a paramilitary group has completely !@#$%^&*imilated into the general public, how exactly do you target only military targets? This isn't the same oldschool fight where you can take out airfields and leave airports. Hezbollah is completely !@#$%^&*imilated into the Lebanese society. In a fight like this you can't avoid civilian casualties. When the paramilitary force you're fighting uses the civilian infrastructure as a whole, because the government of the nation is either with them, or doesn't have the balls to kick them out (or ability), you've got no choice but to take out power plants, roads, airports, etc etc etc. Israel will gain the fact that Hezbolah will be cut up, disarmed, and their leaders killed. You can't accuratly predict the future, but what you can say is if nothing was done with Hezbolah after the recent actions, 10,20,30 years down the road their equiptment would be more sofisticated, they'd have more money, and their nuts would have grown 30 years bigger.
Wonderer Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 Greased I've no doubt that if Hezbollah was kind enough to come out into the open like the good little children you seem to believe they are, that Israel would be happy to keep the fight away from the populace. They are a TERRORIST organisation, yet you think they'll act like a standard military and setup a "base" to keep their people and arms. You really need to think before you post.
Yoink Posted July 20, 2006 Report Posted July 20, 2006 This whole ordeal is bull!@#$%^&* and the US shouldn't have anything to do with it, short of removing their citizens from the battlefield.
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