»Ducky Posted June 29, 2006 Report Posted June 29, 2006 Congress is trying to make burning our flag illegal. Right now it's protected (the act of burning it) under Freedom of Speech. Thoughts?
Yupa Posted June 29, 2006 Report Posted June 29, 2006 Apparently it failed by one vote. Yikes. Hopefully it will get plenty of attention and any thoughts of trying to p!@#$%^&* it again will be beaten down by a larger majority. The state of our union. :/
SeVeR Posted June 29, 2006 Report Posted June 29, 2006 Freedom of speech is far more important than displaced pride.
Greased_Lightning Posted June 29, 2006 Report Posted June 29, 2006 My belief is that calling burning or desecrating the flag a form of speech is .... really... lame. Kinda sad actually. People burn the flag for shock factor. They don't feel there is enough conviction in their words so they resort to a violent act (yes, it is a violent act) against a symbol of our country. You can disagree with how the government governs or how policy is implemented but the flag has absolutely nothing to do with that. I absolutely abhor the desecration of the flag and think that anyone who does this (unless the burning is in a ceremonial manner consistent with retiring a flag and honoring its long service) is contemptible. True, people do not die for flags, but we should respect sacrifices made for the ideals for which that flag stands for. There are better ways to make your discontent known, and sure as !@#$%^&* if you make some sort of speech and then burn a flag as a point, all your arguments and anything you say before or after that means !@#$%^&* to me.
SeVeR Posted June 29, 2006 Report Posted June 29, 2006 So if you take a bit of cloth and draw/dye the American flag on it, it suddenly means something other than "this is America's flag"? People may have died for what it stands for TO THEM, but forcing others to have the same respect for something that is essentially a piece of cloth with a symbol on it is almost going against 'Freedom of Religion'. We are free burn crosses, qurans and bibles so why not this other symbol? People should not be forced to treat a particular symbol with respect. I won't be forced to join the American religion (aka Patriotism).
»Ducky Posted June 29, 2006 Author Report Posted June 29, 2006 I think it quite funny that burning a cross, is uncons!@#$%^&*utional and a flag isn't. I just wanted to point that out as I agree with Sever.
Aileron Posted July 2, 2006 Report Posted July 2, 2006 Well, if you burn a cross, you can't expect to walk into a church and have the Priest like you for it. Its the same thing here really. I don't get it...people do radical actions to be counter-cultural and then turn around and wonder why mainstream culture doesn't like them. As for flag burning, it really is in the grey area in freedom of speech. On old cowboy saying is "don't get to cutting the branch that you are standing on." Its foolish to criticise the first amendment while demanding its protection. Flag burning indirectly does this, because doing so is an act of contempt against our democracy and our cons!@#$%^&*ution.
»Ducky Posted July 2, 2006 Author Report Posted July 2, 2006 Not necessarily. It's generally against a specific part rather than the entire thing.
Greased_Lightning Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 As to whether or not there should be a Cons!@#$%^&*utional amendment against flag burning, I would say no because it isn't a big enough issue just like the gay marriage thing. I would prefer that both be left to the states to decide for themselves (of course then there would be cases challenging the legality of such acts...which is stupid, because people so often complain about the gov't having too much power and the states having too little, yet people always bring the federal gov't in to force things....kinda off topic, sry). I said that I find flag burning to be really poor. Like Ail said, if these people want others to listen to what they say and give a !@#$%^&* about what they say, they shouldn't come out and offend them immediately. Of course there are always the people who yell and complain just to hear the sound of their own voices...they are just pathetic. Why should flag burning be acceptable and turtle-burning not? You could make an argument that burning a turtle alive is some form of expression.
SeVeR Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Burning a turtle alive is cruelty against animals. Burning a flag is like burning your old curtains. If some patriotic idiot with nothing better to be proud of wants to attach some meaning to a particular pattern (The American Flag) then we shouldn't all be forced to treat the flag like an ancient tapestry. I don't get it...people do radical actions to be counter-cultural and then turn around and wonder why mainstream culture doesn't like them.I've never burnt a flag (or a cross) but if America invades Iran i'd certainly be tempted, i don't want to be breaking the law to express a viewpoint. If mainstream culture happens to dislike that i'd understand why and continue to happily disagree. The fact remains that we should not be forced into the American religion. Flag burning indirectly does this, because doing so is an act of contempt against our democracy and our cons!@#$%^&*ution. It can be or it can be an act of protest against the American government or a loss of faith in America because of what it has become.... it doesn't have to be a lack of respect for what it once was.
»Blocks Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 I am always peeved when things like this cause a huge ruckus, because they're really non-issues. We should be more concerned with a ban on burning people with bombs.
ThunderJam Posted July 5, 2006 Report Posted July 5, 2006 As to why it falls under freedom of speech:They categorize speech into two groups, literal speech, and symbolic speech. Symbolic speech is any act that is used to express a view or thought. Hence burning the flag is considered symbolic speech. Personally, i think burning the flag is the worst disrespect you can possible show for your country. It's like mexicans wanting to come here, then making the national anthem in spanish. If you wanna live here, why sit around and bash our country? On legal terms however, i dont think it is possible to ban the burning of the flag. Whether I (or anyone else) like it or not, we shouldnt be able to sidestep the cons!@#$%^&*ution to make it illegal.
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