AstroProdigy Posted March 21, 2006 Report Posted March 21, 2006 I like them, they'll shake things up in the world.
MonteZuma Posted March 21, 2006 Report Posted March 21, 2006 I don't think they shake things up per se. But they do make doing business with Europe much easier. Travelling around the EU countries, especially those countries with the Euro, is a breeze. They do seem to have an increasingly strong voice on the world stage, and I think the poorer nations in the EU will benefit a lot - economically. It'll take time to see the economic and other rewards, but the EU is a great thing for Europe.
Spyed Posted March 21, 2006 Report Posted March 21, 2006 It's great because people are able to move from one member state to another really easily. Means more hot chicks
AstroProdigy Posted March 21, 2006 Author Report Posted March 21, 2006 If I didn't live in the US I'd live in a European Union country because then i could move around wherever I want.
SeVeR Posted March 21, 2006 Report Posted March 21, 2006 Yea.... but everyone still hates the French. Every country bordering France (Spain, Italy, Germany) has a long standing hatred for the French. The Americans hate the French and are a whole ocean away. Even the French hate the French! The only people who like the French live in Quebec. *French bashing over* So the European Union was a great idea and still is because otherwise we'd have all invaded France by now.
MonteZuma Posted March 21, 2006 Report Posted March 21, 2006 I think even people in Quebec hate the French.
AstroProdigy Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Posted March 23, 2006 My country got added recently so thats cool ;-). Also it seems to be starting to expand past Europe.
AstroProdigy Posted March 24, 2006 Author Report Posted March 24, 2006 I think Russia has too many problems to be added right now, especially considering their size.
Aileron Posted March 24, 2006 Report Posted March 24, 2006 Russia, though considered a European country (most of their major cities are west of the Ural mountains.) is too independent to be in the EU...they simply don't think like western Europeans. I for one don't hate France. I also don't subscribe to the belief that they are weak cowards. The only time they've ever been occupied is in WWII, and that was because of strange cir!@#$%^&*stances. They predicted the next war they would fight if any would be with Germany, so most of their military was in the form of stationary defences on the German border, called the Maginot line. They didn't fortify their border with Belgium. Belgium continued the Maginot line in a fortress they built along their border with Germany. Their stupidity was that they contracted German engineers to design the thing. By the time WWII started, the German army simply asked the engineers for the schematics, and not only had the complete schematics of the base, but had built scale models of the fortress to train for the capture. When then finally attacked the fortress, it fell within days. This allowed them to go around the Maginot line...cutting off the French defenders from their best hardware. As for the French soldiers fighting for the nazis afterwards...those who are unwilling to give their lives to fight an enemy that is clearly evil are indeed cowards, but it is an entirely different matter when the lives of your wife and children who that enemy is practically holding hostage are concerned. They didn't really have a choice. Thus, France was never cowardly...they just made an oversight in that they should have fortified their border with Belgium as well....a historical lesson that international cooperation isn't always a good idea. As for the EU, if that's what Europe wants who, am I to argue? I'd just recommend that they be carefull when dealing with matters relevant to their defense, such as immigration. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
MonteZuma Posted March 24, 2006 Report Posted March 24, 2006 Belgium continued the Maginot line in a fortress they built along their border with Germany. Their stupidity was that they contracted German engineers to design the thing.Do you realise how small Belgium is/was? They didn't stand a chance. As for the French soldiers fighting for the nazis afterwards...those who are unwilling to give their lives to fight an enemy that is clearly evil are indeed cowards,That is really easy to say at arms length. Thus, France was never cowardly...they just made an oversight in that they should have fortified their border with Belgium as well....a historical lesson that international cooperation isn't always a good idea.Fortifying a border with an ally is stupid. It sends all the wrong signals.
The Apache Posted March 25, 2006 Report Posted March 25, 2006 The war has been over for a long time, thus, no one has a real reason to hate France at all. Not enough hate to spark racism anyway.
SeVeR Posted March 26, 2006 Report Posted March 26, 2006 I wasn't really thinking of WW2 when i implied the French are cowardly, always get the crap kicked out of them and act bitter to the rest of the world after. It started long before WW2. The kind of hatred that has built up for France takes centuries of bad-relations.
AstroProdigy Posted March 26, 2006 Author Report Posted March 26, 2006 Turkey is trying to get membership into the European Union. Also, Tunisia will be given status similar to that of Norway soon. Interesting since they aren't actually in Europe.
The Apache Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 If they aren't in Europe, where are Tunisia and Turkey supposed to go then? They can't really be classed as Middle East or Asia. Nor Africa. Norway are part of Scandinavia aren't they?
AstroProdigy Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Posted March 27, 2006 Norway was just for comparison with Tunisia. I'm just saying there will be an expansion outside Europe and who know where this will lead.
MonteZuma Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 But Tunisia will not be a 'member' of the EU. Afaik, the deal with Tunisia is just a trade agreement. The EU has many agreements with many countries that are not in the EU and not in Europe.
AstroProdigy Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Posted March 27, 2006 Yes, but Turkey is applying directly into the European Union.
Dav Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 i am a fan of the EU personally. If the vote for the EU cons!@#$%^&*ution had occured here i would have voted in favor. People may not like some nations in the EU just as some may not like states of the US but it has many benifits IMHO. 1. Freedom of trade lowers prices on many goods and also increaces dependancy between nations wich premotes peace and further cooperation. (I would like to see this model Spread gloabally but thats another debate) 2. As a combined unit the EU had a greater political influance against the US and other cooperating political movements in the world then it would as individual nations. (this would of couse be further increaced by the EU becoming more of a unified nation then a collection of nations) 3. Id rather be a part of a union with europe then with the US. The reason for this is i simply disagree with much of the US international polocy and find myself agreeing much more with that of the EU.
MonteZuma Posted March 27, 2006 Report Posted March 27, 2006 Yes, but Turkey is applying directly into the European Union.Turkey is a European country.
Aileron Posted March 29, 2006 Report Posted March 29, 2006 Actually France never got the crap kicked out of them before WWII...they've had some take-over-the-world schemes fail, but that's "failure to kick the crap out of somebody else". People hate them because they did some nasty things during that time period. The US is hated because we are on top...if the EU ever grows to be stronger than the US people will hate their policies. All human action amounts to playing god. If there is an injustice in a minor nation going on, the choice of a large nation is to intercede, in which case they are taking the role of judge, or ignore it, in which case they are considering themselves "better" than problems in which others are suffering. There exists no political policy that will please everybody.
SeVeR Posted March 29, 2006 Report Posted March 29, 2006 For a thousand years English kings have been going to France to kick the crap out of them on a regular basis. It's just a p!@#$%^&*-time for the English although they/we couldn't get away with it now. You're right that France has been a powerful nation and you're right about the "failure to kick the crap out of others" thing but they've had ALOT of failures and the only times they've succeeded were when they had the help of another country. They've had alot of bad-relations with other countries... i've heard about long standing hatred of the French from Germany, Spain, Italy and England which is pretty much every major power that has a border. There exists no political policy that will please everybody. i.e. no-one knows exactly what right and wrong are. Therefore absolutes don't exist in our minds but exist in reality only to be speculated upon.
Dav Posted March 30, 2006 Report Posted March 30, 2006 and why has that "kicking the crap out of the french" stopped? the answer is that trade between eu nations means that we are reliant on each other thus way is unprofitable. As a second result of this the sharing of culture and ideas has broken down the social barriers that lead to conflict. globalise the world this way and we have world peace IMHO (yes i know a slow process) IMHO the EU is a good model for globaliseation as it shows how a unification of peole brings peace and many benifits for all concerned.
The Apache Posted March 30, 2006 Report Posted March 30, 2006 For a thousand years English kings have been going to France to kick the crap out of them on a regular basis. It's just a p!@#$%^&*-time for the English although they/we couldn't get away with it now. You mean British, right?
Aileron Posted April 3, 2006 Report Posted April 3, 2006 Oh, I forgot to respond to these;Do you realise how small Belgium is/was? They didn't stand a chance.Just because the country is small doesn't mean that their soldiers are 2 feet tall. They could easily have been as strong as the Germans unit for unit, stonger even (large armies often decrease their individual effectiveness if they outnumber the enemy too much), so atleast they could have held out long enough for allied reinforcements to arrive. As for the French soldiers fighting for the nazis afterwards...those who are unwilling to give their lives to fight an enemy that is clearly evil are indeed cowards,That is really easy to say at arms length. My opinion doesn't change. I'm not scared of people. The worst thing one person can do to another is kill the other person. Evil, on the other hand can lay claim to the heart and soul. If you cooperate with those such as the nazis, they can get you to do things that will destroy who you are and forget what you believe in...a fate worse than death. Fortifying a border with an ally is stupid. It sends all the wrong signals.But this is the real reason this needs to be addressed. The French government is in place to serve France, not France's allies. If they knew that Belgium was too weak to hold off the enemy* for any amount of time, they shouldn't have hesitated to take the diplomatic hit and do what needed to be done. Maybe diplomacy will recover, maybe it won't. If it meant losing an ally, then all they lost was really a back-door into their country. Take the case of a security contracting company which provides non-firearm carrying security personelle to business and persons. A 5 foot tall lb woman who has no extrordinary martial arts skills shows up looking for a job. If the owner doesn't hire her, he takes a PR hit for discriminating in the workplace. If the owner does and has her protect a client, its worse though, because any attacker can overpower the guard and do what he wants to the client anyway, costing the company a reputation to its clients, who are the people they serve. *A fact they did NOT know admittingly...they thought that Belgium would be able to hold of the portion of German soldiers sent their way. Hmmm..letsee... Germany hates France because a long time ago Germany was the Holy Roman Empire. (Neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire, its just a name.) The nature of their political structure made them divided, and for the longest time France had did all they could to keep them divided, which caused French involvement in the Thirty Years War. Italy hates France because France kidnapped the Pope, in attempts to get him to proclaim all French foreign policy to be holy. Spain hates France because Loius XIV convinced Phillip II (I think...which Spanish king was the mentally re!@#$%^&*ed one again?) to name Loius' nephew heir to the Spanish crown, causing the War of Spanish Succession. England hates France because France was the centerpiece in a boycott of English goods by all other European countries, which didn't work. (England pwned all of them put together economically.) And for the Hundred Years War. (Not really a war that lasted a hundred years, more like a century of off and on hostility...the Thirty Years War on the other hand was indeed a war that lasted 30 years, and the only one in which the Swiss participated if I know my history.) And actually, it sort of was France's hobby to invade England...the Norman invasion is what historians consider to be the beginning of the Renaissance.
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