Pistol

Plareplane, "On the other hand, players consciously dodge shraps all the time. Bombs have big enough prox that you often can't avoid getting hit by them, but they're often slow enough that you have a range of spots to skim them. Since shraps come out at the 8 corners, you just skim them anywhere else to avoid taking an extra 190 damage (which is pretty noticeable once you're yellow and numbers start appearing beside your ship)." Assuming you're in open space (it cant be anywhere else since you didn't mention any bounces), those 8 shraps that come out are inactive and do 10 dmg, not 190. This means that most of the time they are largely irrelevant in the open, which is what I hinted on. With good technique you can get by paying minimal attention to them. Recall that I said, "the further the bomb is from me, the less dmg it will do." That means I agree that skimming is good. Skimming in the open, no matter how you do it, already puts you in a position to take minimal damage. It doesn't matter if you've chalked up in your mind how the 8 shrap are going to come out or not. That is why I disagree. You think people skim "accurately" to pre-dodge shrap, and I know they dont, because the vast majority of the time they dont need to. They dodge the shrap after it becomes visible, if anything. There isn't any huge predictive skills required here like you're suggesting there is. Now lets take your example and put you inside an enclosure where the shraps can actually do 190 dmg: Even if you do put yourself in a position to avoid the 8 (10 dmg) shrapnels when they come out, you arent protecting yourself from what is actually dangerous - the bounces that are about to compound the shrap damage by 1900%. In truth you were better off hitting them before they bounced. With all this said, I don't see your point, at all. "Also, players can deliberately run through a bomb's prox to lower the damage taken by forcing the bomb to do some pb damage (esp against thors with its huge blast radius), but it's pretty situational (the bomb needs to be close to the shooter relative to its blast radius), and often times maybe it's more so the shooter making a bad choice of when to bomb than any reaction on the defender's part" I know this, but what does it have to do with the discussion at hand? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Crescendo, 5% is significant when the sample size is hundreds of thousands of games over close to two decades. 5% can contain very important league games. It took you 2 days to respond and you respond by quoting others who you think are pro players, when the fact of the matter is they are middle-skilled. In the future I would hope you could think for yourself, good things can happen. You say I grabbed a quote out of context, and then you did the exact same thing to me. When I said pro league should be considered more of a casual game, I was more referring to this: "and ultimately the end result of all the settings, the rules, and the map, is an environment where highly defensive play can keep the weak much more competitive than they should be." and "It makes sense that the harder thing to do should be the most rewarding, but 4v4 doesnt work that way" And yes this is all made even worse by what you call <5% occurrences, and a 3 death limit. All of this is why a lot of players seem to be so incompetent at judging things. Be it player skill (especially their own relative to others), what is actually happening in the game and why, etc. What you have is an environment full of obscurity to anyone except very few. If we were in an environment where you were constantly forced to engage or lose, the truth would become much more obvious than it is. Those with worse fighting ability would constantly die (and I'm not just talking about bottom tier teams). Again, this has nothing to do with settings changes since I already said Im not suggesting to change the core nature of league, simply shedding light on its flaws to people like you - who actually think its good design. I already knew I would get some unfavorable reactions but to say any of it is a lie, you're in denial.

Been keeping an eye on this thread and I have to say it is pretty funny. Before I say anything I just want to say that I'm well aware core elements like shrap and repels are never going to change, and I'm not suggesting to change them. But dont delude yourselves into thinking things are even close to ideal the way they are. You are seeing the game through rose-tinted glasses. A perfect example is where 7th said "These two areas add a bit more inconsistancy which, I believe, gives the game more character." Alright, that's fine if you think that. But inconsistency is never good for a competitive game. If you want to keep inconsistency, you should acknowledge that "pro" league is nothing but a casual, fun-driven event. You can't pretend it is anything more than that when games can be decided by inconsistencies, and ultimately the end result of all the settings, the rules, and the map, is an environment where highly defensive play can keep the weak much more competitive than they should be. The part about shrap and learning to play better is what really got me laughing.. Who on this earth ever fired a bomb, having planned exactly how the shrap was going to come out and connect with their opponent? Most people, including you posting in this thread, are lobbers. At least half of the time you dont even know that your shot is going to hit. Dont pretend that shrap kills are skill. Predicting the way shrap is going to come out of an enemy's bomb and pre-dodging it? If you were truly gifted with this kind of vision you would have seen the bomb coming and dodged it completely. Moreover, if they were truly gifted with this kind of vision you would be much more powerful than you are. You'd be constantly making everyone look stupid. What goes through a pro player's mind is very basic (and most of the time it is true but not always): -The further the bomb is from me, the less dmg it will do. -The more direct my shot is, the more dmg it will do. Shrap isn't even on the conscious level until it needs to be (when you're red). I knew someone was going to say this. That is actually just bad game design, plain and simple. You're right. It is technically a perfect shot because it deals the most damage, but it shouldn't be. Where in this world other than 4v4 league has a perfect shot ever been anything but a direct hit? The fact you gladly accept it as if there is nothing wrong with it tells me you are either in love with this game (seeing it through rose-tinted glasses), or you somehow think no one should question why things are the way they are. Understand that the game was made by error-prone human beings, not some omnipotent entity (and it shows). About bomb aim and damage, I tend to agree with McLaren's logic. It makes sense that the harder thing to do should be the most rewarding, but 4v4 doesnt work that way (not in any way... I could draw countless examples). On things you might actually consider changing: Shark is pretty much useless against anyone with good ship control, or in any lob fest (which comprises the vast majority of 4v4 games). Decreasing antiwarp cost isnt going to fix that. It's The problem is that the ship's only strength is its fast guns, and because of the way it flies, you wont connect enough to kill anyone with good control of their ship. Greens shouldn't give you anything, ever. Warp doors are random and shouldn't exist. That is all. Sorry if this offends anyone, that was not my intention. Just trying to put the truth on the table.

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All cats smell, all cats piss everywhere. You've just gotten used to it and therefor cannot smell it If you want to get real extreme about it, then the same applies to humans. They wear deodorant to mask their stink, they piss in restrooms everywhere they go, and often outdoors, and many eat wild game birds... especially around Thanksgiving. You are just used to it. Give it a break, you are arguing about cats on the internet on the forum of a 20 year old game, and you are losing. Time to change the direction of your efforts. Actually you are losing and deflecting every point with the argument "humans do it too". Are you so dumb that the difference between humans and felines needs to be explained to you? Cats are inferior creatures, even among wild animals. Your perverted passion for that repugnant species isnt shared by the majority. Deal with it. Disgusting pictures btw, gagged a bit.

So do humans. Not sure what kind of trailer park you live in but the humans around me take showers, use toilets, etc.

Fixed for clarity.

Yet still bad.

Said no one ever.