geez who the !@#$%^&* is this noob, 17th has population gained a little bit about 3 3 1/2 years ago, then a moron sysop decided to change the jav and ruin it for all vets, vets stopped coming, noobs played pub now 17th is a stagnent hole in the ground thats good aobut 1 hr outta the day. Its stagnent it will always be stagnent because SS doesnt get a lot of new players these days everyone plays other games thathave good graphics and other bull!@#$%^&*. Stop complaining and blame staff. Premier(17th)