G.T.O The Judge

http://odyssey.doh.ru/images/mug/Mugberns.gif excellent. (for a beta)

quake 3? not even close.

man, If you pull this off ZnZ, u da man. If you don't, u still da man.

It's not dead. If I finish w/ my zone, I'll work on it. As a matter of fact, I got a hold of a very suitable and new engine for a 3D subspace.

European women are easier. Take note of the sweedish girl that took over my avatar thing. American women think that they're better than everyone, though they're just as easy as european woman when they're in their 20s. European women are easy until they find themselves extremely unattactive.

meh, I tried my part in trying to get the new 3drad thing. They still won't give it to me for a discount, so I gave up. Using the andro9 engine might be easier b/c the scripts for all that stuff (heat seeking missiles, etc.) are all ready there

technically, it will still be 8 bit b/c it uses a custom palette that makes it look richer in quality when using 16, 24, and 32 bit. If tiles were actually 16 bit, then a lot of people would be complaining about frame rate and other -*BAD WORD*-eries.

but the person who owns the "clean" client or any compatible client, doesn't own all of subspace, which i88 is suggesting. Subspace is a game that is running from pieces made from different people. Therefore, BDE does NOT have control or full ownership of the game. They just have power over the client, a piece of software. and yes, I am using the legal sense. Let me use another example: A guy designs a light saber. He patents his idea. He sells his idea to Light-Sabers Anonymous. They m!@#$%^&* produce it. The guy who orignated the idea makes a more updated Light-Saber. Can he get sued? No, because he invanted something based on his original idea, regardless of it being patented. Now if he sold his idea AND made a contract to work for the company, then all his inventions would be licensed and owned under the company he works for. IBM and Motorola are two good examples of companies that started this movement.

Double post.

I like it. Finally you're trying to make some sense. However note that I agreed with the statement that ownership = ownership. I already described this as common sense. As well, I described it as your agreement to my FIRST POST where I answered the question of ownership. That has not been refuted. Where have you found evidence contrary to this? Oh right, you haven't. You keep blathering on about how you're "right" about your first statement after I called you a newbie. Let's go through everything you messed up on one by one shall we? This way I can be direct even to someone with limited intelligence... 1. Priitk and Ekted do have rights to the CLIENT, VIE might still have the rights to the SUBGAME software. + False. For this reading up on history because it is integral to knowing ownership changes. We saw that BDE holds all rights to SubSpace through the communications with BDE and the SS Council in several e-mails. 2. Yes, priitK is responsible for the client, as with other people are responsible for programs that actually make the client work mind you, so who really "owns" subspace? + This rhetorical question implies that someone other then BDE "owns" SubSpace. Here I boiled down your argument to "ownership = ownership", which you agreed with. This also agrees with the fact that "BDE owns SubSpace". 3. There would be some programmers out there with time on their hands that can develop a new one, and by your logic i88gerbils, they'll own subspace, because they have rights to a client. + False. Where'd you get this one? Nowhere in my statements did I imply anything near this. I never said that anyone gets any rights at all. I stated the facts that, once again, BDE owns SubSpace. + False. However, perhaps you are confused by this statement " It just sits there in their hands." "their" refers to BDE, and once again I already told you that it was a criticism of both RisC and Horizon that any SubSpace vet who pays attention to the game he loves when it is in danger will know. 4. My post (the post that started this debate), had nothing to do with the history of subspace. Why? because I'm talking about who owns it NOW + False. I proved this wrong in my first post by outlining the basic history, which is important to ownership issues because ownership has changed hands 3 times. This could be confusing to some players so I clarified it in my first post. Again this does not change the fact that BDE owns SubSpace. 5. Owning one piece to the puzzle doesn't mean that you can complete it. + False, when put into the context of SubSpace ownership. BDE owns SubSpace. However, you did make the comment about Continuum. Continuum is more complicated, but as I said in my first post, that it betrays the original license. It is also a "clone" or copy of original material that is owned by BDE. That is your clarification if you were wondering. In any case BDE owners SubSpace. 6. Just because you played SS since it started doesn't mean that all your arguments are correct. That's just conceited and arrogant. + False, when put into the context of SubSpace ownership. I am not the one who is claiming statements without evidence! How can you be so blind when evidence is brought infront of you? You disrespect the SS Council, news sites such as Subspace.net, SSHQ.com when they reported accurate news about ownership issues. Geez. My arguments are correct because I proved them to be so because BDE owns SubSpace. 7. You have agreed with my point, which suggests that "Technically no one owns Subspace, the game in its entirety". + False. This refers back to #2's refutation. Please read it again because you might have forgotten it by now... Those are the major statements that you make. All refuted. Fun? I did this posts ago.... Let's hope GTO can read this time. And finally... Newbie: In this context a newbie is a player who attempts to have knowledge in a forum or post, in which he knows nothing about. It's also a troll. GTO proved himself a newbie by making wild guesses about ownership issues after I gave a thorough overview of past AND present (seeing another person's comments, which agree). N3wb. 0wned. Sit down. There is nothing you can do to come out of this ahead anymore. Just stop posting. You think it is trash talk based on nothing when in fact it is based on your being an idiot. *sigh* I wish I could play a nice song in this thread. I have a couple already picked out. I miss those days... Ok, BDE has "Rights" to the client, but they don't have control over the other stuff that makes playing these games possible. That's why MMP games these days have built-in server software to ensure that the person or people have rights to the game in it's entirety. That's why BDE doesn't own subspace, the game, but the client. Now let's review your post: 1. Priitk and Ekted do have rights to the CLIENT, VIE might still have the rights to the SUBGAME software. + False. For this reading up on history because it is integral to knowing ownership changes. We saw that BDE holds all rights to SubSpace through the communications with BDE and the SS Council in several e-mails. Yes, they have rights to the client, they can modify and post it for download, but BDE has the overall say since the rights to that piece of software belongs to them. Take the automotive industry for example, Felix !@#$%^&*el, who designed the !@#$%^&*el/rotary engine (the engine seen in the Mazda RX8), sold his idea to Audi. He sold the first prototype model to Audi, and made a more refined version. Audi wanted to sue Felix, and FAILED, because they were two DIFFERENT designs, and that Felix, the originator of the design had rights to modify his design any way, any how without Audi's consent. Same thing with other engines today. If you think that a company has full power over something it did not originate, then Mercedes Benz (which is not DaimlerChrysler) would be the biggest and wealthiest car company in the world because the two people that started the company created the car. Just to let you know, General Motors is the biggest car company in the world. <--There's some proof about ownership and copyright laws. And what the -*BAD WORD*- does the SS council have to do with anything? The council is just a mailing list, nothing special. 2. Yes, priitK is responsible for the client, as with other people are responsible for programs that actually make the client work mind you, so who really "owns" subspace? + This rhetorical question implies that someone other then BDE "owns" SubSpace. Here I boiled down your argument to "ownership = ownership", which you agreed with. This also agrees with the fact that "BDE owns SubSpace". Idea established in argument 1. 3. There would be some programmers out there with time on their hands that can develop a new one, and by your logic i88gerbils, they'll own subspace, because they have rights to a client. + False. Where'd you get this one? Nowhere in my statements did I imply anything near this. I never said that anyone gets any rights at all. I stated the facts that, once again, BDE owns SubSpace. + False. However, perhaps you are confused by this statement " It just sits there in their hands." "their" refers to BDE, and once again I already told you that it was a criticism of both RisC and Horizon that any SubSpace vet who pays attention to the game he loves when it is in danger will know. Yes, you did imply it through out your whole argument. You believe that BDE owns subspace because they own the client. 4. My post (the post that started this debate), had nothing to do with the history of subspace. Why? because I'm talking about who owns it NOW + False. I proved this wrong in my first post by outlining the basic history, which is important to ownership issues because ownership has changed hands 3 times. This could be confusing to some players so I clarified it in my first post. Again this does not change the fact that BDE owns SubSpace. And I suggested that no one owns Subspace. the originators of continuum has rights to it, as well as the people from VIE, and now BDE. 5. Owning one piece to the puzzle doesn't mean that you can complete it. + False, when put into the context of SubSpace ownership. BDE owns SubSpace. However, you did make the comment about Continuum. Continuum is more complicated, but as I said in my first post, that it betrays the original license. It is also a "clone" or copy of original material that is owned by BDE. That is your clarification if you were wondering. In any case BDE owners SubSpace. My point again, the power over a client doesn't give you control over the game. Now if the client had built in server software, then that's a different story, but we're talking about Continuum, which has no server software built in. 6. Just because you played SS since it started doesn't mean that all your arguments are correct. That's just conceited and arrogant. + False, when put into the context of SubSpace ownership. I am not the one who is claiming statements without evidence! How can you be so blind when evidence is brought infront of you? You disrespect the SS Council, news sites such as Subspace.net, SSHQ.com when they reported accurate news about ownership issues. Geez. My arguments are correct because I proved them to be so because BDE owns SubSpace. Lol, you sound like a zealot. WAH WAH! OMG! HE DISRESPECTED THE SUBSPACE COUNCIL! BAN HIM FROM SUBSPACE FOREVER. Give me a -*BAD WORD*-ing break. And I can tell you that your knowledge of SS history doesn't prove your knowledge about ownership and copyright laws in the U.S as well as international copyright laws, which is certainly an issue with this game. 7. You have agreed with my point, which suggests that "Technically no one owns Subspace, the game in its entirety". + False. This refers back to #2's refutation. Please read it again because you might have forgotten it by now... Read my post again. If you agreed to my POINT about the different programmers, then it's common sense...that BDE or anyone owns subspace in its entirety. Those are the major statements that you make. All refuted. Fun? I did this posts ago.... Let's hope GTO can read this time. And finally... Newbie: In this context a newbie is a player who attempts to have knowledge in a forum or post, in which he knows nothing about. It's also a troll. GTO proved himself a newbie by making wild guesses about ownership issues after I gave a thorough overview of past AND present (seeing another person's comments, which agree). N3wb. 0wned. Sit down. There is nothing you can do to come out of this ahead anymore. Just stop posting. You think it is trash talk based on nothing when in fact it is based on your being an idiot. *sigh* I wish I could play a nice song in this thread. I have a couple already picked out. I miss those days... the typical arrogant SS vet's mechanism from running away from an argument: Calling someone a newbie and an idiot. And i'm calling you arrogant and re-*BAD WORD*-ed for defending yourself that way. If you want, you can lock this thread because this argument will never end, not to mention I got a zone to work on

rofl, your a funny character. If you can't prove my point, just admit it rather than turn it into a flame bait. Let me put it this way for you to understand: 1) I talked about the present, you talked about the past. You judged my knowledge of SS history based on my post, which talked about the present. I don't know how you did it, but only two types of people can do that: psychics and the mentally disturbed. 2) Tell me what I mean by this: "newb eh? then prove me wrong. " I mean, prove me wrong about my statement: "technically, no one owns "Subspace.", though Priitk and Ekted do have rights to the CLIENT, VIE might still have the rights to the SUBGAME software (and with the ASSS subgame, this subgame will become obsolete). Subspace is NOT like other MMP online games" which you haven't proved, but rather agreed with: "However, yes I agree with GTO's point when it comes to different people not affiliated with BDE programming client/utilities/servers. But that is obvious. People not affiliated = not affiliated. Yay. Have fun with common sense. That was not the intent of the original post, which directly stated ownership of SubSpace to Priitk. I respect GTO for his clarification of what he wanted to say, but the fact remains that he is still a newb in comparison." You have agreed with my point, which suggests that "Technically no one owns Subspace, the game in its entirety". Good Game for contradicting yourself, and making your 200+ lines of argument meaningless. Just because you played SS since it started doesn't mean that all your arguments are correct. That's just conceited and arrogant. I just bet I've played just as long as you anyways. Just because I changed aliases from time to time, didn't bother to communicate with other players that much, didn't bother to make friends in SS, didn't bother to assert myself (in other words, I was the silent type), during 1996-1998 doesn't mean that your more of a vet than I am. ...great, now you got me ranting about being an SS vet. and quoting you again: "He also did not take the hint that I did not compare his post to SS History, but called him a newb because he does not know jack and -*BAD WORD*- about anything in SubSpace." Yes you did by calling me a newbie. And it seems that you don't even know what THAT is either.

Again, My post (the post that started this debate), had nothing to do with the history of subspace. Why? because I'm talking about who owns it NOW. In lamest terms, I'm talking about what's going on in the present; who owns what in the present, etc. You judged my knowledge of subspace history based on a quote that had nothing to do with it. Therefore, further arguments about my post and its relation to SS history is meaningless. Secondly, you didn't prove me wrong on anything. Your just telling me that "Ownership lays in the hands of owners." So again, the logic used in that sentence proves my point about how you would view ownership of the game: "There would be some programmers out there with time on their hands that can develop a new one, and by your logic i88gerbils, they'll own subspace, because they have rights to a client." Yes, you explained how SS history is important in this thread when understanding who owns what. But my original post didn't mention anything about it's history. Bottom line, it does ask "who owns subspace?" Continuum, the client is owned by someone/something. Owning one piece to the puzzle doesn't mean that you can complete it. You can call me a newb and we can argue about SS history, but you won't prove anything that I asked you to prove, and this thread would be meaningless. p.s; comparing's someone's logic used in an argument doesn't say a lot about a person's character

well, rather than waste my time arguing about who played SS the longest, I'll tell you this; my post about the ownership had absolutely nothing to do with the history of subspace. I'm simply stating that the different programs that make up subspace were compiled/build/whatever by different people who most likely had nothing to do with the companies you mentioned. Yes, priitK is responsible for the client, as with other people are responsible for programs that actually make the client work mind you, so who really "owns" subspace? I can make a client that mimics this one (i'm saying this just for argument purposes) that runs with subgame and subbill, and if it's more popular than the old one, and eventually and full-bloodedly replaces the client, then that doesn't mean that I own or have 100% control over the game. -*BAD WORD*-, if bDE or whoever decided to ban people from downloading the client, they wouldn't kill subspace. There would be some programmers out there with time on their hands that can develop a new one, and by your logic i88gerbils, they'll own subspace, because they have rights to a client.

newb eh? then prove me wrong.

technically, no one owns "Subspace.", though Priitk and Ekted do have rights to the CLIENT, VIE might still have the rights to the SUBGAME software (and with the ASSS subgame, this subgame will become obsolete). Subspace is NOT like other MMP online games