Bargeld

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&rlz=1C1CHKZ_enUS431US433&q=translate+die+bargeld+die&oq=translate+die+bargeld+die&gs_l=serp.3...10065.11776.0.12056.10.10.0.0.0.0.81.720.10.10.0....0...1c.1.53.serp..7.3.234.3V_v50c_rlE

Not for me

Based on these statements, I think you smoke crack. At the very least, you have no idea about the game mechanics. This description of InactiveShrapDamage applies: http://wiki.minegoboom.com/index.php/Shrapnel_Settings "Damage shrapnel causes in its first 1/4 second of life." It has nothing to do with whether is has bounced or not, nor whether you are in the open or near a wall. After 1/4 second, shrap deals it's 190 damage. Crack kills. So does shrap. Even out in the open.

As far as the shark goes, I liked it better with 300% cloak and 1750 energy. Similar to the extreme occurrences with shrap mentioned above, if you end up 1 vs whatever in a shark and you have to run anti, that's just how it goes. Otherwise, who cares about anti cost. Don't be that 1 out of 4 pilots on your team who volunteers to run it. Bomb explosion damage? Check the arena settings.

Aiming at a target (or target position, in the case of making shrap happen) and hitting that target/position are 2 different things. If you can aim and hit directly, then why would you not be able to aim ahead and hit indirectly on a wall and cause shrap that they will fly into. It's not that I am so in love with this game, it's that myself, and plenty of others have been playing it for 18 years now. You'd be surprised at how much the game mechanics get burnt into your brain, and how many sessions have been spent doing stupid non-league things that result in a revelation of how something works. I remember learning the game and thinking I was sooo good at it after 2 years. I was... for a 2 year player. A year later, I had learned even more. After 5 years, I felt like I knew everything. Still to this day, I am learning things. Never underestimate the power of repetition when it comes to learning new things and changing how you see and approach a task.

And I agree, I think shrap is a central element of the game, and even as random as some might infer, to me it adds a level of skill that isn't immediately obvious. The 'perfect shot' situation presented is not always synonymous with 'direct hit'. Sometimes the perfect shot takes shrap into account and is not a direct hit. My point is that data set comparisons shouldn't be the end-all determination of what should and shouldn't be, and that even a data set will be subject to difference interpretations. There needs to be some level of human experience and logic in order to keep it skillful. 20 damage as a difference from shrap and a bullet, or a single random shrap that gets a kill are not game changers. The general response to those situations is that the target was playing too risky, putting themselves in a bad position, or was going to die regardless. I would expect someone to respond with 'learn to play better' in those cases.

Hence, if the curves match over a large dataset, you might as well remove shrap altogether, right? My point is that the curves and the data don't really matter, and it comes down to the community's opinion of shrap vs no shrap. Leave it alone, tweak it, or remove it. It's a decision based on opinions, not facts and data.

The perfect shot is the one that causes the most damage in any given situation. If your target is in a corner, don't hit em directly. Hit the wall where you know they will take 70% bomb damage and get hit by 3 shrap for 600 damage. Cres, when your graph shows "avg damage including shrap" that's somewhat debatable as to what it means. If you are comparing a direct vs an indirect with inactive or missed shrap vs an indirect with a shrap hit, vs and indirect with multiple shrap hits (over time), I don't think that graph would be a smooth curve as suggested. Assuming the situations I just stated, from left to right, It's more like: | * |* * | * | * |______ It's all situational, if someone gets stuck in a box and the incoming bomb proxes on the target, then you get 8 shrap inside the box + the indirect damage (this is the worst/best case scenario). Assuming it all hits, you get like 600 + 1600 damage. If they are stuck in the box and bomb explodes on the inner wall, you only get 5 shrap and maybe some indirect bomb damage. Say 300 + 1000 damage. If you direct hit them in the box, they take full direct damage, but no shrap. Its 850ish. If they aren't in a box, at best, 1 shrap can be a reliable hit on an indirect, so the reliable damage is going to be 5 or 600 + 200. Direct hit outside the box is going to be the same 850 as in a box. Really what it comes down to is that shrap is powerful, plentiful, and offers an element of controllable randomness based on the skill of the shooter and target. Smart targets get the f' out of that corner, duh. Smart shooters aim to make more shrap in a corner. Smart targets skim the bomb out in the open on an angle that shrap doesn't project into. I would go so far as to say the discussion of skill vs randomness boils down to shrap vs no shrap at all. I know this is 'skilled 4v4 league play', but just to toss it out there, original SVS settings had random damage on bullet and shrap damage (yes the actual damage of each shrap and bullet hit varied up to the max damage setting) and the shrap explosion pattern was random as well, meaning that no matter how skilled you were as a pilot, sometimes you just ate the 650 for the bomb + 5 shrap in your face, and you would die from one bomb at 1700 nrg. Uncommon, but possible. So in league play, when we are discussing taking 650 + 190 + possible additional 'random' shraps that might hit, vs a 'skilled' direct hit for 850, it's seriously into some knit-picking and everything is opinion, there are no facts. Datalog for a year and people will still argue about the numbers that come out.

Says the guy who is a pub scrub who can't even have a + rating nor anything close to a 1-1 k/d ratio http://www.svssubspace.com/?page=Pilot&id=Bargeld Says the guy with 2 games under his belt for current reset. -24 and +1, well done. http://svssubspace.com/?page=Pilot&year=2008&month=0&&id=7th

Says the guy on his 2nd post.

*drooool*

You're right, there is nothing conflicting within the part you mentioned. You practiced, got serious, became a real team. No conflict. The conflict I'm pointing out is that the addition of a couple guys is what you stated was integral to success leading to the finals. And your most recent response follows suit by saying that you need to improve your team in order to be attractive to better players in order to gain those players. It leads one to summarize that in order to be successful, the addition of new players was the key for your team, and is the suggested path to success for other teams... But the closing comment in the part I quoted was that a team shouldn't expect a top player to join your team and lead you to the path of victory. Although that's what the rest of what you are saying leads to. Hence conflict. Without trying to just be nitpicky, I'm honestly trying to figure out if a team needs to practice for years in order to become successful, or if the success comes from the addition of new, better players (which are gained by being a decent team).

That first paragraph sounds like your team practiced for years worked out a bunch of stuff and got better. Then you attracted a couple really good players that had nothing to do with the previous YEARS of coming together as a team, and those couple guys were integral to your progress to the finals. Just seems like the messages conflict with each other.

He means himself.

Not that we were notable winners of any title this season (except Pryde himself, woo!) But this was the scenario for Dropships last season. We had a FULL roster, and even ran out of room with the desire to add another player in the middle of the season (they were going to remove 1 of 2 inactives on the roster to do it, but then rules and stuff happened). I was one of the top 5 most actively practicing players, but unfortunately, my badass style of winning is inconsistent, so when game day came around, I was usually there for moral support or as 1st or 2nd sub. I managed to participate in 2 games (partially) and win one completely solo (I was the only player who showed during a bye round against a dropout squad in an early game... but hey, I was there to represent!) This season, the roster is even deeper with at least 4 new players to the 'dropships' team. So far, we've split the roster into 2 squads, basically A and B teams... final rosters to be determined further down the road. I was placed on the B team due to real life happenings that will limit my amount of time playing and attendance for weekend games. Subject to change as things change in life and in the way matches are scheduled. End thoughts about participation and winning and playing and benching... I think having a full roster of active players waiting/hoping to play each weekend is a waste. I think that a squad should be built around 5 core players that are willing to commit to playing the season. If you have a core player that isn't willing to commit or practice, etc. then they shouldn't be counted in that 5, nor should they be played during match time if the rest of the core of 5 is present. I don't get into the stats part of the game, but I would say that the only reason to have a full roster of 12 is to bulk up the pracstats, allowing the 'squad' to prac much more often. Unfortunately, none of that practice is beneficial on game day, when the line-up is completely different. Sure the prac helps the lower and mid end players to hone their skills, but the actual core squad players really need to be practicing as the game day lineup, otherwise it's just playing for playing's sake. With what I described about dropships and the changes so far this season, and the play time I saw last season, I decided that it just didn't matter to me. I login during the week and I just want to play. Alpha is gone, chaos pub is dead, and the only SVS left with the people I know is 4v4 league, so I remain rostered just to be able to pew pew at all. Without being rostered and at least playing with people that I know and have fun with, I would be left with capping random teams or hoping to get a spot at 11pm on some team with a suicider that never logs off. If you are seriously into league and stats and winning... nothing that I just said means anything to you