spin

AstroProdigy, Here is the problem... the word "center" when used in politics is far too subjective. I do understand your concern, I spend my time in sub space talking to people about politics, and I am dumbfounded by bush supporters simply because they are repeating propaganda and not being objective. I am sure that there is mis-information in the liberal world, but the fact is rush, oriley, hanity, fox news, abc,nbc cbs are all promoting bush white house dis-info without question. Republicans these days are not even aware that the mainstream republican party is not conservative, but rather neo-conservative (HUGE DIFFERENCE). Republicans these days are blind to many crimes Bush White House has done to the American public. They tend to forget that Iraq war was legally justified by the idea of Iraq had WMDs. Republican controlled congress had a investigation, but TOTALLY IGNORED the very office that was set up by bush's people to be the gate keeper between our intel services and Congress/American public/media. The media doesn't talk about it, Rush says its time to move on, and bush supporters are happy with that, but still seem to be pissed that President Clinton lied about a sex scandal. I would think the "center" would say, that lies to start a war and checks and balances in our gov being worked-around by bush's people would be of concern, but I guess that is just asking too much from the people dumb enough to be satisfied with the piss poor job our media is doing. The media sets the standard for what the "center" is. Astro, Hitler's "big lie" tactic is in full effect in USA (the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to be believed)... Try pointing out that nearly everything a bush supporter believes is PURE FICTION and see the head-in-the-sand counter arguments come into play. Same thing happened in Nazi Germany with the people that supported Hitler... their view of the Nazi's were skewed from reality via a supportive media.... it is very very troubling that it is happening here in America. Spin (let me guess, I was attack for providing links in my last post, now I will be attacked for providing no links on this post) **The office that bush's people set up to be the gate keeper of our intel, and was used to cherry pick and FAKE the Iraq WMD threat is called OSP or "Office for Special Plans"

Hackysack- perfect example of my post 92 If you do not address the data (and not the stuff anyone could pull out of their !@#$%^&*), you will not be addressing the issue. As far as "We can go back and forth posting sites that contradict one another, it wont get us anywhere" - Hackysack The rules are designed so WE DONT throw !@#$%^&* around we know nothing about... I believe EVERYONE would agree that posting links back and forth would be a improvement to what you are doing. Plus lear jett asked for me to back up what I say, and this is a reasonable request. YOU DID HOWEVER p!@#$%^&* on your "The fact sheet is on the amount of oil imported. Are you trying to say that the government is now smuggling oil into the US too? " statement. I gave an opinion and you are allowed to address that. All I can say is; the amount of oil being shipped from Iraq says nothing about what we were talking about... the subject as I recall was "Iraq war had a lot to do with Iraq's oil and nothing to do with the stated reasons Bush used to get us to invade Iraq". That is a example of how "logic questions" are used to get around the facts.. In your case your logic question is "If we invaded Iraq for it's oil, then why are we getting so little of it?", and then you ignore the data that shows the plans and motives of bush's people that planned the Iraq invasion, and say "I won". And that is the reason I have, and you broke this rule... 4. DO NOT REPLY to say something to the effect of "Well why would he do that, If he was going to do that then why are Democrats not calling for his impeachment? " ---- Again, YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO REPLY to the facts and opinions derived from the sources I am using. If you want to say "Spin you are wrong" address the links I provided, show that they are wrong, follow the rules or continue to talk out of your !@#$%^&*.

"Spin, quit !@#$%^&*ing about your ban already. You broke the rules multiple times with multiple warnings. Your ban is justified. " - Hackysack 1. As many have pointed out many times, it does not matter why I was banned; players can be barred from a zone for any reason if the zone owner feels like it. Players have NO rights in sub space. 2. I did break "the rules" multiple times, I do not think anyone is saying otherwise. The "rule" is bull!@#$%^&* and a symptom of why TestTube's zone has more complaints than any other zone. 3. My ban is not justified, I did nothing to hurt the game, and I am careful not to hurt the game. But now we are getting back to the idea that no player in Metal Gear has any rights. "If you dont like the rules of MG, dont play there. Its like playing in an event and getting specced for breaking the rules." - Hackysack No, the difference is any other rule apply to game play, the rule I broke apply to my god given right to say what I want. Again I would understand if I was hurting game play or taking up too many lines and interrupting the flow of the chat, but I was not. I was banned because I was "talking politics". " Just because you dont like the rules and want to do what you want anyways, doest mean you're going to get away with it." - Hackysack And remember what I got banned for... this is what "i was trying to get away with" Aramax> dont go to close to walls Spinsanity> Bush Lied, American's died T Kn|ght> Thunder and rain poring here... T Ba$h> wtf spin? Whoop-!@#$%^&*> yan? T Kn|ght> going to have to log off soon Did you know that MetalGear CTF has a public chat? Feel free to join it and chat by typing '?chat=mg' Take part in the community we have to offer by reading and posting on the forums : www.metalgearctf.net/board : T Whoop-!@#$%^&*> yan? T CrazyCrayon> yan who? T Ba$h> make your post first T Blocks> knight you telling people how to do it? T Ba$h> yan_the_man T Whoop-!@#$%^&*> never heard of him Sylent Chaos> NOOOO Sylent Chaos> LOL Spinsanity> Too bad nobody asked Bush to prove his claims about Iraq were real. Ba$h> STFU spin! Ya... good reason to ban somebody! Nice rule TestTube... good reason to report me Hackysack !@#$%^&* ya I broke the rule... the rule should never of existed in the first place. Its not like the rule has anything to do with the game, or is something that is done everyday in other zones or even in Metal Gear zone as long as its computer talk and not political talk. I do what I do for a reason, its part of my game play, I do not interrupt the game play. What I did do was say something that pissed people like you off. I find it funny that Hackysack is one of the guys pushing for a ban on political talk. here is why Hackysack and I chatted several times on Metal Gear about politics in private chat, then turns backstabber and complains to the mods and/or TestTube that I am talking politics in public chat, TestTube didn't like what I was saying, so TestTube made up a rule and enforced it. Like everyone keeps telling me, players have no rights in Sub Space. I think its high time they were, No accountability == dictatorship (TestTubes version of the SSC zone dictatorship is a Fascist one, TW's version is not that way)... having the zone owners accountable to SOMEONE, ANYONE, maybe even to the players, creates a Democracy, and reduces unnecessary problems and will help increase the number of players on the SSC network. Hackysack seems to like to talk politics, but when faced with something he doesn't agree with, he lobbied successfully to get me banned from Metal Gear. I am lobbying to change how that can occur so easily. !@#$%^&*, it might even approve the at!@#$%^&*ude of the players in Metal Gear.

Lear Jett- perfect example of my post 92-AGAIN! "Do you believe everything you read, Spin?"-Lear Jett You broke rule #2 2. YOU can not say "this is liberal" or "this is biased" or "look at that link, how dumb, anyone can say stuff on the internet" ---UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW that the articles given are presenting a half-truth by not including RELEVANT other factors/facts OR that the facts presented are simply wrong. Keep tryen Lear Jet, Makebe you can break all the guidlines and remain dumb and prove my point about misconceptions and why people continue to believe them. But actually, I believe you are just here to cause trouble or make non-sense arguments.

Lear Jett- perfect example of my post 92 If you know the general concept, do your own research The links addressing Hackysack's comments above show some of the specifics to some of the issues about bush's policys being bad. To get other general reasons that you may not be aware of, listen to that link I emailed you, then follow up. But as you said, "I do not have the time", so lear jett you will continue to post the same questions. Maybe you should think of a way you could get beyond this trap. Make the time maybe?

Spinsanity's post #92 vs "So far no one has "rejected" any source you've provided. We've just pointed out the bull!@#$%^&* in them, and showed you how they're wrong" - Hackysack Sorry Astro if I go outside the bounds of your topic, and Aileron I hope some of this addresses your post, but this is mainly about Hackysack's response to my post 92. Your post is worth of a new topic thread (and good effort, I read it all) I think most of this can be spun off onto other threads, but remember, I am not the one that expanded this subject (on this thread). However this is a good test case of Astro's orginial topic. To Hackysack and Aileron specifically... I INSIST that you review (read) and research (verify and look for VALID counter arguments) ALL of the sources I give, BEFORE you post ANY reply ---anyone else reading this may find the sources interesting too. GROUND RULES for replying - derived from my post 92 1. YOU HAVE TO READ ALL links given for the specific topic; reply ONLY to the sources I give, if I do not give a sorce you may reply to my opinion. 2. YOU can not say "this is liberal" or "this is biased" or "look at that link, how dumb, anyone can say stuff on the internet" ---UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW that the articles given are presenting a half-truth by not including RELEVANT other factors/facts OR that the facts presented are simply wrong. 3. IT IS REQUIRED that you show a source that is closer to the subject than I am using. Example- "spin your article says that Bush is doing something, well lets have what Bush said and not what someone said, here is my source" 4. DO NOT REPLY to say something to the effect of "Well why would he do that, If he was going to do that then why are Democrats not calling for his impeachment? " ---- Again, YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO REPLY to the facts and opinions derived from the sources I am using. 5. You can use the argument of "this can not be verified", ONLY after you have TRIED TO VERIFY. In addition you MUST make some attempt to verify that the source you are using is valid..... Honor system here guys! Topic 1: "You believe in this huge conspiracy that the Republicans are these evil people who are trying to take over the world and destroy mankind." - Hackysack Hackysack IS WRONG! Here is what the facts are, and I agree with the facts. The Republican Party is dominated by Neo Conservatives, NOT by Conservatives. The Neo Cons have made their home in the Republican Party, Limbaugh and other main stream media Republican talking heads are promoting Neo Conservative policys as being the both Conservative and Republican. Many Republicans are not aware of what is happening in their own party. Bush's policys are Neo Con policys, Neo Conservatives policys that Bush is implementing are indeed to dominate the worlds resources for American corporate interest. If this will benefit you or if this is good for America are outside the scope of this topic. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...32/ai_101448333 http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm http://www.shockingelk.com/text/neoconservative/ http://www.againstbombing.org/howtookover.htm (some minor problems in wording, much valuable info) Topic 2: "All you do is try to compare Hitler to Bush, which is ridiculous." - Hackysack Hackysack IS WRONG! There are infact MANY strong comparisons, and yes I know Limbaugh and other Right Wing talking heads do what they can to say otherwise. http://www.awitness.org/journal/bush_hitler.html http://www.amconmag.com/06_30_03/feature.html http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0122-10.htm http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm Topic 3: "There is not only no proof that we went there for oil " - Hackysack Hackysack IS WRONG! But there are other reasons, just none that Bush has told ya about. (Other links in this post will point to some of the other reasons). http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_pr.shtml http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4830129/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm Topic 4: Spinsainity's commentment to political conversations in Sub Space "I gave you a government source that was a fact sheet on the import of oil from the Gulf Coast. As soon as I sent it to you, you started to change the subject without even taking a look at the source I provided." - Hackysack Hackysack IS WRONG! Actually YOU are the one that changed the subject. As it stands now I assume the source you gave me is correct (and I did go to it). But the amount of oil we are getting HAS NO DIRECT RELATIONSHIP to the subject of the motives for Bush's wars... in other words, there is MUCH better evidence than what can ONLY BE INFERRED by how much oil is actually being shipped to USA. As you can tell from the above links. "You don’t even bother going to most the sites given to you" - Hackysack Hackysack IS sorta right sometimes. I do try, and VERY OFTEN I do, the times I do not, I am sorry. Since I play in windowed mode, I can only take screenshots or manually type a long url in while I am playing. I do try and I believe I will start logging my game play more to avoid this problem. "I believe that Aileron has described what fascist systems are like." - Hackysack Hackysack IS sorta right, Mostly wrong Yes, Aileron in another topic gives the a textbook description on the basics of a dictatorships > http://www.ssforum.net/c/index.php?showtopic=7252#. Yet in another post he quickly went off track with respect to Nazi Fascism > http://www.ssforum.net/c/index.php?showtopic=7935&st=30# (see post below for correction of some of Aileron's claims) Aileron, see if this jives with what you know all ready. > http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/germany-1933.htm Spin Related topics: And lear jett.. Bush is only the figurehead, the real problem is the Neo Conservatives in the Republican party, and the very real danger is that they will simply push another figurehead in the 2008 elections and keep the same policys in place. (A dictatorship via pushing a candidate they want us to vote for via Right Wing media and opinion). But as it stands today, the buck stops with Bush. ANY non reply, and we will assume I am making largely correct arguments using largely valid resources. Please see rules for reply.

I am working on getting some logs of my public chat, I will edit them in here later If I get any. If anyone is interested, above--I posted some screenshots of what TestTube and I were talking about after I got banned for this. I find it hard to believe that no one holds the owners accountable to common standards and interest of the SSC network... Without this "for the common good" accountability you will get these excessive bans (or being banned for "freedom of speech issues". The individual owners will get a god complex, cronyism follows then you get the corrupt-guard/sneaky-prisoner (mod/player) thing going and it becomes normal, when it need not be that way. A little quality control of the SSC zones coupled with asking the owners to think about the SSC network would go a long way. I hate to put it this way, but since I noticed that Lear Jett told me- "You know, there are other servers to play in" (Reason I hate it... Lear Jett knows damm well if I didn't care about THIS zone I would not be !@#$%^&*ing) I will sum up what I said above in Lear Jetts style- To Zone Owners: If you do not want to help improve the SSC network and come up with a few common standards and participation for the "common good of the SSC network" then there are other billing servers. Just sayen... they already put in a big sacrifice, it is not asking alot to make a improvement or two, even if does mean a little outside interaction. Since no one else seems to have a example of my public chat, I am working on getting some... then everyone can see why TestTube and I disagree. (And why kolar seems to hate me very very very much hehe) spin payine no big letters-- happy?

Astro, here are some points I would like to make 1. When I was using the term "fascist" I was being literal, in other words, some have the MINDSET or the inclination to easily support such a system, with little to no problem. The reason I got a such a reaction from people like lear jet and Aileron is because they do not know what a Fascist system is like. And America's current Republican Party and its propaganda has indoctrinated them into much Fascist thinking, but as any good propagandist knows these days, the propagandist do not call it Fascism, they call it "Conservative". Which leads to point 2. 2. Lear Jet and Aileron have been taught not to think for themselves, and have been taught that if it does not come from a "Conservative" source it must be "biased" and to them that equals a lie. They will goto any length no to look too deeply into a subject and will only trust "Conservatives" sources because they are not "liberal" or "biased", which to them means "not true", which means they have done enough research and and KNOW that they are right. In other words, if you present ANY argument that is contrary to the "Conservative view", they will automatically assume that wrong... THEN they will answer you back with something like an insult or "that is not true", or ANY other argument that does not address sources or data or the facts. 3. They will ALWAYS have TOTAL faith in their "Conservative" source, they will ALWAYS reject any other source without and research, they will 90% of the time, try to throw back some logic question, like "why would they do that?" instead of sticking to the data, because they will ALWAYS claim you have no valid data, THEN they will tell you that they "won" the argument. 4. The reason they feel that they can trust their sources is due to the fact that the system of the "Republican echo machine" is set up in such a way that one propagandist re enforces the other (they use the same talking points). And as Hitler said, "the bigger the lie, the more inclined they are to believe it" And yes, our media sure does lie about some major imporatnt issues, so does bush. And no, it has never been this bad before, and no I do not see any type of reform coming soon :/ 5. The best way help these guys is to make them stick to ONE subject, present your best data (sources), NOW THE TRICKY PART-- make them actually review the data, then have them try to refute your data with data they bring to the table-- and go from there. 90% of the time they will say "I am not going to read this "liberal biased stuff" even if the source is not liberal. Basically, if you do not insist that they actually read your source, you will end up with what you had on your page 3 of this topic. hehe I am not trying to pick on lear jett and Aileron, and I do not think they are Fascist, but I do think they have been conditioned to behave this was, by the cues given from the mainstream right wing talking heads. And it does take some effort to break that cycle. And honestly as far as I can tell, the right wing talking heads that they trust are lying on a massive scale, and at the current time there simply is not this behavior being done of the left side of the isle. And I truly believe this is the time to !@#$%^&* about it, actually I more than half way think its too late to !@#$%^&* about it, this is much worse than say Vietnam era news/opinion media working with the military-industrial complex. (Before you say that concept is a "consericy theory" 1. check who warned of this danger (hint: a the last good Republican Prez we had 2. Much has been written on the subject as being a real and growing problem) Oh and then there is that problem that not special to any political party... It does take time and effort to actually look at the data, rather than have a talking head feed it to you, and yes, even liberals get stuck on trusting their sources too much.... but I do see the typical right wing rush Limbaugh person much more unwilling to actually REVIEW the evidence before dismissing it.. due to reasons 1 - 5.

And I am accused of spam? Paine, am I hitting a raw nerve? Yes, the links have everything to do with TestTubes political ban, TESTTUBES OWN WORDS and his OWN at!@#$%^&*ude toward the members of the SSC network. Paine, your one of TestTube's cronies... tell him to post here. spin

Metal Gear's Political Ban Revealed! Kolar is right --- some data will help continue this discussion. I stay in windowed mode and I normally do not log my chat, so screen shots is the best I can do. When I started this protest, I figured TestTube or someone else would present this stuff, I was wrong--Kolar reminded me. I did blur out some private chat not related. I took screen shots of TestTube's chat because I was shocked at getting banned due to "political talk", Otherwise the screen shots were taken because I needed the info later or by accident. Thing on the right is a TV window. What Spinsanity does.. random sample (when chat gets heavy, I take it to private, I do not interfere with team chat, I do not interfere game play, I make it part of my game play, yes people react to it) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/spin1.jpg http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/spin2.jpg GW Bush got me! .. can't remember if I thought it funny or if it was totally accidental screen shot. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/gw.jpg TestTube's discussion when he banned me. According to TestTube it was due to my political chat. He makes it clear HE is the only thing that matters in Metal Gear. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/tt1.jpg http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/tt2.jpg I am not flaming TestTube and Metal Gear, I am only pointing out a problem. The reason you do not see TestTube posting in here is simple, as it stands now, he is accountable to no one. Spin.

Hay Spin here, Found data -found screen shots, including TestTube discussion about no political talk in Metal Gear btw, if you have any logs of my chat.. post them I does not feel right for me to post messages in Sub Space just to record them at the moment. I will post links to screenshots later Oh and Kolar, reason I made that comment to you about Canada and politics, as I recall I was talking to a American Bush supporter about something I was wanting to keep on track, and I needed you to be quiet for a bit, as I recall -- IT WORKED! heheh

Rofl, that sounds impartial and worth reading... Read it u dummy!, It is from a conservative right wing congressman, ya he has a right wing slant, but he is largly correct. Also try to google the term "neo conservative" and use whatever source you see fit. You never tell us any of the lies, Spin. You tapdance around the whole issue. Give us something to debate!Here is what I want you to do, goto http://mediamatters.org/ pick one article you find that is in error (and calling it "liberal" doesn't equal being in error). Then bring it up on Astro's forum, or start a new topic. I would very muich be interested in the subject you uncover as being in error and your source to back up your claim. See ya later, spin.

Disturbing pattern of behavior Kolar, your sorta annoying too, but I am not out to ban you, nor do I wish that you wonder into a bad zone-owners sight and get banned for little to no reason. I am protesting against this behavior for you Kolar as well as me and everyone else on the SSC network. As everyone that takes TestTubes's rights of server ownership points out, he can ban anyone he wants for any reason. As you put it "No one is there to make sure you get treated fairly." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars) Lets take your points, "he [TestTube] pays a lot of money out of his own pocket for you and everyone for nothing to play MG, could you not at least acknowledge and respect that?" -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars) Whats not to respect? The problem is how TestTube chooses to do with what he has created, and how he treats the people that wonder into his zone. As a side note... I ACTUALLY DO RESPECT Kolar's ZH skills, Kolar is a excellent ZH, every time I have ever had a question or had to do a ?cheater, Kolar has always been right there (no matter what name I was using). Trying to get me banned, I have to say I do not agree with, and I didn't agree when you and ephemeral tried a few years ago for the same reasons as TestTube banned me. ephemeral == TestTube? hard to tell. "......if anyone of the SSC members actually saw what you do in game they'd agree, anyone would." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars) I do not hide how I play Sub Space, I believe darn near everyone has seen me play in TW, records exist of my game play and chat, I talk to players day in and day out. I do not spam, I do not har!@#$%^&*, I do not interfere with game play, apparently I DO agitate some people (go figure ), I do change zones, and sometimes I may not respond to everyone on all occasions, but I try. (If I responded would you also call it spam or har!@#$%^&*ment? Just asken) "People who don't want to see politics, or your version of it in SS and on here are NOT Nazis, facists or anti-American." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars) I never said they were, I do however say how TestTube and his staff oppressively treats the people that come to his zone, in a Fascist sorta way. I started out my protest on the SSC rules forum, and TestTube's sys op SVC locked the thread. In that forum I found that I was FAR from the only one that has a problem with TestTube's behavior. Metal Gear has a disturbing pattern of behavior... Kolar and others, I want you to read http://www.ssforum.net/c/index.php?showtopic=7603 I do not care if this guy was cheating or not, what MG's staff did to this guy is unacceptable in a network where we are trying to build a community. Pay attention to the conversation the banned guy had with TestTube before TestTube net banned the guy (near bottom of page one). I had about the same experience. I started this protest because TestTube was threatening a one year net ban on me, it looks like this I was not the first. And how people treated the banned guy while they were posting on that forum wasn't all that nice either. Kolar, you feel strongly about my political talk and resent it so forcefully you will tend to remain fixed to the issue regardless if your concept is found to be completely flawed. Kolar you do not have to support me, but take a look at who you are supporting, for now please go with me on this one. Spin Mr. Bak, I only said it would be interesting to find out how the deal with ABC and the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund got worked out. Public relation companys are not in the habit of telling how and why things are worked out. I am pointing out that Bush jr's failure to respond to the Tsunami disaster for days, and his failure to respond to the disaster in New Orleans for days make America look bad, the teaming up of Bush Sr. and Mr. Clinton to a cause called the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund is simply damage control for GW Bush making America look bad. (Can we expect a pre recorded bush jr speech at half-time? Bet me!). As far as ABC is concerned, Disney, parent company of ABC, has turned most of its extensive radio network and owned-and-operated stations into a 24/7 orgy of right-wing talk. (Sean Hannity is their poster boy.) As far as politics and tonight's event... I find it interesting that Mr. Clinton used today to distance himself from bush's policys. Politics being involved with the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund? Go Figure! Lear Jet, Liberals can be totalitarians too, we call them Communist. The pattern of abuse that I am !@#$%^&*ing about on the SSC network is a symptom of Right Wing influence, Bush White House lies for war did not come from the left. As I always point out, Bush's politics are neo-conservative, not conservative, there is a HUGE difference. Neo Cons are not Conservatives, Bush isn't a Conservative, Limbaugh, O'Riley and the Right Wing radio talking heads are not Conservative, They are Neo Conservative, go back to that article I posted on Astros link called "Neo Conned" to find out more.

Mr Bak, I agree with everything you say, except the part that the fund that Monday Night Football will be promoting is not political in nature. I stand by what I said, the message is designed to help Bush's image by default. The Pat Robertson Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message. The Bin Ladin Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message. The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message. On the other hand the Salvation Army's Katrina Relief Fund - Does not send a political message. The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund - is crisis management for Bush White House officials handling the Hurricane Katrina disaster. The message is... "let us set our differences aside, let the mistakes of Bush's actions go down the memory hole, let us get behind our President and help out".. Bush has done everything he can to divide this nation. The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund is named the way it is to reverse this damage The tidal wave fund Bush Sr. and Mr Clinton represented was largely for the same reason. I am SURE if you checked out why ABC chose this fund, you would see what I am talking about. I hope you agree more with the rest of my points Spin

http://www.allfloyd.com/images/the_wall/hammer.gif TestTube's Jackbooted Police State Emerging on the SSC network Thank You Aileron for inviting me into the SSC's free speech zone, I would hate to seen what would of happened to me if I would of posted in TestTube's Metal Gear forum, but judging from how I was treated on TestTube's server to date I think we can all take a guess! Aileron you said, "What if a sports commentator was talking politics in the middle of the Steelers/Patriots game? NFL fans wouldn't want to hear it, they want to hear discussions on the football game." I would like to point out to you that ABC's Monday Night Football already has been !@#$%^&*ociated to right wing politics via their sports announcers, those being Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Miller. In addition, Monday, Sept. 18, 2005 you will have Monday Night Football doing damage control of Bush's Government's mishandling of the hurricane disaster by urging American's to contribute to the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund. The name of the fund is very political in nature, it implys that Bush is a uniter, not a divider, and hay he is trying to help. So actually Aileron football does promote politics. The Right Wing !@#$%^&*ociating itself with sports for promotion of their ideology is very accepted in America today. Speaking of sports, Hackysack seems to believe that the proper analogy of TestTube's ownership of Metal Gear and its players is like TestTube owning a sports team. Well Hackysack you can go around all day and claim your alarm clock is a rooster, and you can present your evidence as being that the your "rooster" wakes you up every morning at sunrise, but you would be mistaken. TestTube does NOT own a sports team, rather what he owns is a sports arena, and the SSC network are the roads to that arena, with the Sub Space software being the rules for the game play. The people the visit TestTube's arena are both the fans and players. TestTube owns the arena, while the SSC network owns the roads and billboards promoting Metal Gear. The people that own the Sub Space software are the owners of the game that is played in TestTubes sports arena. TestTube gives the impression that he does not have to answer to anyone, not the people that own the roads to his arena, not the people that invented the game, not the players and fans that show up for the event. Legally TestTube may or may not be correct, but it is the Sub Space community that TestTube's actions betray. As TestTube's cronies have pointed out, they are not concerned with the players; the players have no rights in Metal Gear. The only rule in Metal Gear is the rule of what TestTube wants and his desire to "maintain peace and order" (according to Hackysack). While not legally obligated, other zone/server owners using the SSC roads try to build a community where the players and guest are respected and honor players rights, fair play and freedom of expression is tolerated in every SSC zone except for TestTube's zone. Hackysack, Trained, Paine, Kolar and those that support TestTube's position, you will have to wait until you find that you disagree with TestTube to figure out where you stand with respect to TestTube's server. Perhaps a disagreement is brewing, perhaps TestTube would want you to back off restating over and over that TestTube owns the server and players in his zone have zero rights. Perhaps TestTube would somewhat like to maintain the illusion that players can enjoy his zone as long as they do not violate the norm of the SSC network. Hackysack, keep calling long time players "morons", talk to TestTube and see if he thinks this is wise, then notice who wears the pants in your relationship. Some may wonder if I would continue to talk politics if I was unbanned, well I see no reason why any of us should have to "set at the back of the bus" in Metal Gear. After all, remember when you see that crazy guy holding up the John 3:16 banner on Monday Night Football, remember the owner of that arena doesn't kick him out, even if he legally had the right to do so. Notice also that many others bring banners to a football game, I was one of those that brought a banner to a arena. I got kicked out of TestTube's arena because some fans and players did not like my banner. Meanwhile no one will be kicking out Bush's damage control "banner" on Monday Night's football game. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/do!@#$%^&*entaries/images/fascism_football_lead.jpg In Metal Gear, the goal is to "maintain peace and order" The real question isn't what I will do when the ban is lifted--- the real question is what will it take for TestTube to change his policys to reflect the norms of the other sport arena owners and the owners of the roads and billboards that help TestTube's zone? What will it take for TestTube to respect American Democracy, even if he is not legally bound to do so? Spin

SPINSANITY IS TALKING POLITICS-- SO SHOOT ME!!! It's funny, everywhere outside of Sub Space and the Fascist first instinct is to shoot a dissident--- BUT not in Metal Gear. In Metal Gear they just ban you, give you warnings, or censor you ability to send messages and other commands. What I do does not interfere with game play, when it does I move it to private chat. Strikezone> i don't know y ppl say laggot and !@#$%^&* i mean wats the point the ppl are still gonna play even if they do lag. and i think they no that they lag Aileron> They were essentially liberals who turned to evil and twisted every liberal ideal to be the opposite of what it normally means devilsbloo> lol Ciraxis> hehe Strikezone> i lernt my lesson lol MonteZuma> The nazis were liberals? By definition, liberals value protection of civil liberties. Nazis did not. The nazis were fascists. Moderator Warning-- Political Talk Not Permitted *** Remember, This will get you punished in Metal Gear, Because TestTube owns the server has decided that OUR First Amendment rights have no place in his zone. Not because it interferer's with game play. If TestTube was interested in game play he would be banning the people that set in spec for hours and banning players that leave the keyboard for minutes at a time. Short post Spin. Side notes 1. MonteZuma - your comment about Nazi's not being conservative, while true technically is a bit misleading, about as much as me saying that Nazis were conservative. This technicality it important, BOTH are Right wing, Conservatives that move to Fascism is the base of the Fascist, with the "New Deal" type of liberals joining them. But like you said, Conservatives are not Fascist, on the other hand Neo Conservatives (the group controlling bush and a good deal of the Republican party and propaganda machine (any idiot on right wing radio) are in that group that are moving toward fascism very quickly... MANY Conservatives have complained rightly so that the stuff LearJett and Aileron are hearing on Limbaugh is not conservative. 2. LearJett - There are many cases where our laws limit what people can do with their property (can't do a denial of service attack with a server, can't keep Mormons off your bus), at the same time there are limits on free speech. The question is... can TestTube launch a denial of free speech attack on YOU or Kolar or hackysack? Rather than TestTube banning me, he should be shooting me!

MORE ODDS AND ENDS! Hackysack and Aileron are back. Hi everyone! Spin here, I am still not in Metal Gear thanks to TestTube's oppression of the First Amendment of the country that TestTube calls home. http://www.skywriting.com/misc/pics/free-speech-pen/land-of-the-free.jpg But I am here in the free speech zone! Alleron, WOW- well lets correct some of your facts you got wrong as it relates to this thread. Perhaps if someone challanged your views in a area outside Rush Limbaugh's control you would of corrected yourself by now, like say Metal Gear... oh wait, nevermind. Aileron you said "I don't know if the nazi jibe was intended to be literal or not...until I can see otherwise I must assume it was." Well here is what I have said so far on this subject in this forum. From my post "The following 14 points of Fascism is derived from comparisons of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet.. The original link sites GW Bush's actions, policys, wars, and new laws to indicate just how far we are sliding off the right side of the scale and into Fascism. So Bak and Aileron, to answer your angry little rants-- Yes, you can link Bush to the above leaders, not just Hitler" - Spin from the post #20 "Can you smell it?" Alleron, please go back and review the links I provided, I encourage you to start a new thread if you find that the links I provided are in error. As for your views on what a Nazi is/was.. WOW you are VERY VERY VERY off base. You said it best "That's only my opinion, so there will not be a source that backs me up on this." - Aileron. However you are correct that Nazi does imply socialism in that name. Hitler implied socialism but it was not socialism. This helped in 2 ways, it was a way to get the German people on his side ("compassionate conservatism" is a new slicker version of this tactic) and to get German capitalist more profit (private companys carried out the "social" programs.) As for you view on Bush's Iraq war, your equally confused or flat out wrong on many topics that is worthy of a new thread. Aileron, the vast majority of what you discussed (90% or more) is flat out wrong, a lie, not correct, misleading and is EASILY verifiable that you are wrong. Ask yourself, how did you get to be so wrong on so many important issues? That is worthy of Astros thread "what burns me". But it also relates to how fascist back up their policys- propaganda, it has been done before, and it is happening now in America. TestTube's censorship of such subjects is only a cog in the machine of Bush's propaganda, same mechanism worked in Germany and other countrys where fascism and totalitarianism was the norm, Central America's "Banana Republics" is another example of this. (goggle "Banana Republic" to research how this phrase was developed) Now, Hackysack I have never made a threat on anyone just in case you are saying that I have, nor have I ever gone outside the bounds of America's first amendment., nor have I ever said anything not true (well, I try to be 100% accurate, I suspect that I am only 95% when I post my comments in Sub Space.) You said "TT has OWNERSHIP of his OWN server. He can do whatever he wants with it. He's the one who invests HIS money into it." Well, that is what this protest is all about. TestTubes control of the server that he owns stops where OUR First Amendment rights begin. After all doesn't Bush and his propagandast tell you that we are exporting America's Democracy to Iraq? Or will both America and Iraq get stuck with a Corporate-Religious Dictatorship making propaganda points about "Democracy" when it suits their needs? Spin

Aileron and Hackysack - odds and ends. Remember you history (or at least learn some!) 1. Aileron, I have the links, I could have the censorship of my post repaired in a second, but I see that you have a new reason that I will comment on in a second. 2. Germans were secular? WOW, news to the Germans! Now, recall that point about how fascist use religion.... >>>8 Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. See http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm to see how Hitler capitalized upon the Germans religion, THEN compare to how GW Bush pays special attention to America's religious tradition. 3. Bush is moving us toward fascism, and in much the same way as Hitler did. You can keep your opinion that fascism isn't evil unless they comment genocide, but you can not call fascism democratic or American. Take note that the America's grassroots fascist movement- the KKK, for a long time focused mainly as a tool for genocide. I would ask of you to consider that GW Bush's War on Islam is a war of genocide for oil. Yes, I know that GW said that this isn't a war on Islam, but he sure isn't doing anything to stop his propagandist from sayen that it is, or it needs to be. (See links I have all ready posted). Most of the time in Metal Gear I hear a slur toward a Muslim, not a terrorist. 4. As far as your new reason to censor my images, the reason you gave is NOT American Democracy, its called "mob rule". The difference is that our Cons!@#$%^&*ution and Bill of Rights can not be over ridden by the mob, but as I have stated before, it sure as !@#$%^&* can be over ridden in sub space! (Mostly done by Americans that SHOULD know better). And for Hackysack's history lesson, learn to read what I have posted. I HAVE mentioned the reason for me being banned in Metal Gear SEVERAL TIMES since I have been posting on the subject, even used you as a source! And will directly address this topic in the next post. Spin And learjett -- I have posted several links, and I have said something about you shileding your thoughts from things that you do not like. Go back and read my comments directed toward you. Heck, I would like for you to take one of my links you think is bogus and start a new thread about it And I am not angery at anything or anybody, simply calling TestTube's rule that got me banned as being fascist. Was using SOS's comments as a example.

R E S P E C T.. what that means to me. The problem is some of you are having trouble respecting my opinion and respect other peoples opinion much more. This dynamic can lead to someone wanting my opinion banished or otherwise dismissed. Lets consider that I do not respect SOS's opinion in his last post. SOS- I DON'T RESPECT YOUR OPINION! How do I show my disrespect? What could I do? What would a fascist do? I could just ignore you! Example - "I'm not going to argue here since... well my eyes simply auto-avert themselves from such text " - SOS I could make false claims without backing the opinion up! Example -"I notice spin seems to like taking things out of context/distorting them in most of his paragraphs Bad spin, bad!" - SOS I could belittle your argument, perhaps even pick on the weaker points. Example - "I mean, like those 14 points. Hah. The sexism one, for example. And all the rest, I think. The first one, of course. Hahah" - SOS Heck, I might even be able to bury the story with a bunch of comments that are not analysis of the original, but designed to re-frame and dismiss the argument.. You know what I mean, I might put up a long post that says nothing of substance, a smear job... using half quotes, making a comment that is designed to tell others what to think, but not a comment designed to give honest objections to the original post. Example - Review Bak's response to my post "Can you smell it?" I could stop someone I disagreed with by stopping them from posting. Example - I have been blocked from 2 of the 3 forums I posted my objection to TestTube's political talk ban. One locked forum in TW's general discussions, and one in the SSC rules forum. I could censor someone and use a twisted legal argument. Example - Aileron, while well intentioned and wanting to not break any laws as he understood them, did just that. As I mentioned earlier I believe some of this was done simply because I am the new guy, and TestTube has been around for awhile.. It's simply a matter of respect for some. I respect people for the respect of how they treat others, and the validity of their arguments and actions. I believe that some of you have another reason for your respect of TestTubes argument, for example it could be that you respect TestTube's argument over mine due to knowing TestTube longer. No matter how I may have good arguments, some that respect TestTube based on how long you have known him will be much more likely to back up TestTube and belittle my arguments. I know, I know what your going to say, "Spin, there are all sorts of reasons for respect to develop, your just guessing that I have known TestTube for a long time". To those that make that claim, YOUR RIGHT!. I am simply guessing and there are many reasons for respect to develop. I just know that sometimes a false type of respect can trump my type of respect. Take American politics for example, sometimes people form a respect based on "one hand washing the other". Believe it or not, it is possible for someone to buy anothers respect-- I see it happen everyday! For example, that guy who was head of FEMA before he did that poor job and got fired, he got the respect of Bush, he helped election campaigns for GOP figures, Bush respected his fund raising abilitys and made him head of FEMA. http://www.blackcommentator.com/41/41_images/41_cartoon_large.gif In American politics sometimes respect for big business trumps the respect for the individual. Now back to who I respect - I have a growing respect for Aileron Aileron, since your definition of liable related to political discussion has evolved over the last day, I was wondering, would it be ok for me to rebuild what your good intentions tore down? Aileron, could I place the images that you censored in my post back up? Seeing the error of your ways is great... admitting that you were mistaken is great --- DON'T GET ME WRONG. If the original objection is now a mute point, the damage should be repaired --- isn't that something we could all respect? Sorry for this little side track, I will get back to my protest of TestTube giving me that excessive ban in Metal Gear for "talking about politics" in my next post. I just couldn't help but think that some of you are taking TestTubes side because you have known him longer. Spin

http://www.hermes-press.com/big_man.jpg TestTube & Metal Gear players Hackysack and Bak, I stand behind my last post ("Can you smell it") Your last posts back me up too, Thank You! I was censored for typing at about a ratio of 1:15 in public chat. (one commet for every 15 comments posted by other players) What I typed was political in nature. I was banned for a year because the talk was political in nature, "As this is known by most by some its not. please keep political discussions out of pub chat in the game thanks" - TestTube If others talk about politics in Metal Gear they will be under the same restriction. As it has been pointed out to me, owners of the servers hold all the cards, the players are not contributers to the game, but looked on as subjects to the owners whim. Excessive bans for questionable rules makes the whole SSC network look bad. Bush's creep toward fascism makes America look bad. (see source links in my last post) Spin

LearJett 1. No one can lift a owner imposed ban, even if they wanted to. I wonder how much it would cost to buy a unreasonable owner out? 2. The reason there are excessive bans is to make the person banned come back and suck someones member. I for one don't do that. 3. That 10% is a !@#$%^&*. 4. Your smart and honorable and brainwashed! You got your head so far up that elephants butt that you self censor yourself (ie.. brainwashed) Anything that is a threat to your mindset you have been trained to dismiss as "liberal". For example, you say Bush has done nothing wrong, but when you are faced with links that do!@#$%^&*ent otherwise, you don't read it because "its liberal", and your view of 'ol GW remains the same, fresh and ready for another lesson from Limbaugh This does not make you dumb or evil, simply self-censored. I have given you several links in 2 topics (this one and astro's) and as of yet you have not looked at them. To prove my point, the one that was !@#$%^&*led "Neo Conned" is written by a Conservative Right Wing Republican in Congress, but yet you read the !@#$%^&*le, stopped there, and labeled it "liberal". Hitler, Bush, Limbaugh- they love people like you, they don't have to work too hard. Quick note to Aileron- Limbaugh, O'Riley, Hanity, Savage, Coutler and the entire staff of Fox News MUST BE SWEATING BULLETS OVER YOUR NEW DEFINITION OF "Libel" LOL! Also.. posting in the rules forum didn't get very far, the sys op of Metal Gear runs that section and is no fan of free speech- true or not. And a note for both of ya... Bush hasn't done anything wrong? No connection between Bush/Hitler? READ, THEN verify the links I have posted. Also note that Prescott Bush got busted via the "trading with the enemy act" for funding Nazi Germany while we were at war with them. THATS PATRIOTISM!

Hi again everyone, Spin here! Can you smell it? The following 14 points of Fascism is derived from comparisons of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet.. The original link sites GW Bush's actions, policys, wars, and new laws to indicate just how far we are sliding off the right side of the scale and into Fascism. So Bak and Aileron, to answer your angry little rants-- Yes, you can link Bush to the above leaders, not just Hitler. "And why the !@#$%^&* are you bringing Bush into this when trying to dispute a ban?" - Bak But Mr. Bak, your little rant continues to inspire me! The original article talked about Bush--- lets make thinks interesting, lets apply what I have observed in Metal Gear and in protest to get my excessive ban lifted to the article-- we will leave ol GW out of it! Oh, and Mr. Bak as a bonus I will clarify another question of yours.... "I must have thought you were comparing testtube to hitler because this was hitler's vision for Germany, which parallels hitler to testtube and metal gear to Nazi Germany." - Bak Mr. Bak, someone told me awhile back.. "Wanta-be fascist exist in all countrys, in all walks of life... the trick is not to let them get any power." Well, sometimes you can't avoid them, sometimes the people vote for them, sometimes they own a server. 14 Points of Fascism 1 Powerful and Continuing Nationalism Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. A lot of people supporting TestTube sure like to "wave flags" in their comments.... but quickly throw out half-baked corporate-legal type of reasons for the actions. 2 Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, !@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*inations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. TestTubes "no political or religious chat rule" TestTubes's one year bans he likes so much. (I'm not the first guy!) ".. metal gear; you have no claim to any rights there." - Bak 3 Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. My political talk, while true, seems to be in the minority-- I get the word "liberal"thrown at me even if I am expression a liberal opinion or not. I sure seem to be a scapegoat, I am not the only one that talks politics in Metal Gear. 4 Supremacy of the Military Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. Not much to say here, after all Metal Gear is only about people shooting one another. 5 Rampant Sexism The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy. Sure a lot of people callen other people "gay" as a insult in Metal Gear. 6 Controlled M!@#$%^&* Media Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. Well I was censored for my pol ital talk in Metal Gear. You should also note my post in the forums was locked in 2 of the 3 places I posted! 7 Obsession with National Security Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses TestTubes net ban threats. "Anyways stfu or i'll internet-ban you for a year."-Bak "Don't bother with him. I would just ban him here, he's about to get it on the Trench Wars forum if he keeps this up."- Kolar "Remember, that was a bit of friendly advice anyways, not any sort of official warning." - Aileron 8 Religion and Government are Intertwined Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. Metal Gear escapes this one... they ban any talk of it! OH--unless it is to smear Islamic people... thats tolerated in Metal Gear. 9 Corporate Power is Protected The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. TestTube owns Metal Gear, no one can hold TestTube accountable. 10 Labor Power is Suppressed Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. TestTube treats the players like workers to Metal Gear, with TestTube being the owner. Even posting in forums that are outside the scope of Metal Gear will be stopped before more people voice their opinion (in 2 out of 3 forum sections) 11 Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts. Heck, some even call it spam! 12 Obsession with Crime and Punishment Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations When it comes down to it, everyone in the SSC network is subject TestTube's unjust punishments. As it stands now, one guy with a server can overrule the others with no recourse. This fact is the only rule in Sub Space when it comes down to it. 13 Rampant Cronyism and Corruption Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and !@#$%^&*ociates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. SVS the Metal Gear sys op happens to be also the guy that locked out the discussion in the SSC forum. Hackysack goes along with my banning as a way to buck for a promotion (mod) 14 Fraudulent Elections Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. Well- no elections in Metal Gear, according to Bak and others... "There's a reason testtube can ban you: he pays for the server. If the Metal Gear community paid for the server they might have a voice in what rights are given to them or who is in authority, but they don't. The reason you have rights in america is that earlier generations of americans gave their lives for our freedoms. You have given nothing to metal gear; you have no claim to any rights there." Elections in Sub Space? !@#$%^&* no, there are not even rights, rules or community ---only the owners! See original link to see how these points relate to GW Bush: See also: Link Link Link I know what TestTubes objective is by my one year ban, he wants me to admit to him I broke a rule. Fascist want their subjects to come begging on their knees to get "justice"-- and you know what? I did nothing wrong-- and I'm no fool. I know what people abuse their authority expect when they get some dude on their knees before them. Its been done to others before and it will be done again. http://www.rationalrevolution.net/images/kkkdc1.jpg All the people taking up "TestTube's ownership rights" are people that call themselves American. Look what has been created in Sub Space- Does it look American? Some think so! Does it stop once your out of Sub Space? Or do they follow you into the forums? Does it stop when GW Bush is gone? Or will the neo-conservatives simply replace GW with another cheerleader to shove down our throats?

Bak, hehe wow powerful stuff! I'll edit this post later, But here is a teaser... I am not comparing TestTube with Hitler! I compare Bush to Hitler...before you reply, do a lil research! I compare TestTube to a brownshirt or perhaps a German back in 1933 that was a little carried away by Hitler's propaganda. I am sure I am on firm ground when I say.... the best why to honor the death's from Hitler world view would be to prevent this from occurring again. I write more later, but for now I just wanted to clear the air a bit! See ya soon Mr. Bak "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." -Noam Chomsky

Hi all, spin here I just posting while I got some time... I will edit this post later.... I just wanted to say for now "im still in the discussion" LearJett+, YOUR RIGHT, I didn't post much that wasn't opinion, and I owe it to ya to flesh it out a bit. There is a difference of opinion, but seeing how you gave a good honest first hand (or close to first hand ) account of things going on over in Iraq, and I know you are wanting a honest discussion-- I'll throw my 2 cents in later today I hope... and I'll try to give a bit more to back up anything I contribute this time. I will try to merge where the discussion is now to where AstroProdigy started out.

Heavy Spin Control Going Into Play Hi everyone, Spin here! Image of Hitler Youth programs 1940s in Germany: http://www.hermes-press.com/hitler_youth2.jpg TestTube's vision for people in Metal Gear zone. Right before TestTube used a rule to restrict more discussion in SSForum.net in the SSC related forum (forum was locked-- was it to close to home?), he said the following... "This has been discussed already on the trench wars forums and judging by the replys over there iam surprised he had the guts to post again" SSForum - SSC related topics TestTube may well be right! Perhaps America is turning away from Democracy. CBS reported not long ago... "Support for the First Amendment has eroded significantly since Sept. 11 and nearly half of Americans now think the cons!@#$%^&*utional amendment on free speech goes too far in the rights it guarantees, according to a new poll." LINK Here is a stat that reflects the mentality of some that support my one year ban from Metal Gear. "75% said that as part of a classroom discussion, public school students should be allowed to express views that others might find offensive, but just 27% agreed that students should be allowed to wear T-shirts with messages or pictures that might offend others."-- LINK Remember WHY I got my one year ban from Metal Gear, I was banned for talking about politics, NOT spamming. Here is the rule TestTube used to ban me for a year (or earlier used to censor me from chat - and my ability to talk to my team) TestTube published the following.... "As this is known by most by some its not. please keep political discussions out of pub chat in the game thanks" - TestTube LINK to MG forum A player from Metal Gear Speaks his mind - in a "free speech zone" - the SS forum. http://www.hermes-press.com/Jingo.gif Hackysack Hackysack has a fairly correct version of why I was banned, but insist that it was spam (I was not spamming and I was not banned for spam).... "..things like "bush lied people died" then he would give some bull 'statistic' and wait for someone to start arguing with him. He would do this for hours everyday and mods kept getting messages such as. Please stop political talk in pub." And he concludes "..there is no reason to argue politics on a game.."LINK I think a lot of people take issue with Hackysack's last statement, aside from the fact that President Bush lead us into a war that has cost billions and many lives, all on very questionable pretenses, there are other reasons to do what I do, as arcader said in the forum that announced TestTubes "no politics in Metal Gear rule", ...."yah wtf, aruging and flaming is the basis of all fun in ss, especially in an incredibly limited zone game wise, such as metal gear.", which anyone that sees what I do is doing just that, in the context of game play. If at any time someone starts in on a specific subject or is jamming up the pub chat, I take it to private messages. Why would Hackysack say what he did? Well there are two reasons that Hackysack does not want to admit, even to himself. 1. Mods rather than telling the complainers not to cry wolf, some may see a opportunity to enforce a special rule from TestTube. 2. I think the second reason speaks for itself... from the link where TestTube rolled out the new rule Hackysack stated the following.... "TT's to do list: -Ban Spinsanity for constant politcal talk in pub -remove shraps -bring old tile sets back to pub -make me mod" Will Hackysack become a mod in Metal Gear? Will I get my one year ban lifted? Will Metal Gear ban another for "talking politics"?, censor of chat?, a warning from a mod? ---it may be YOU ! Watch what you say and where you say it - some people with power sometimes abuse that power - sometimes in Sub Space! Spin.