spin

AstroProdigy, Here is the problem... the word "center" when used in politics is far too subjective. I do understand your concern, I spend my time in sub space talking to people about politics, and I am dumbfounded by bush supporters simply because they are repeating propaganda and not being objective. I am sure that there is mis-information in the liberal world, but the fact is rush, oriley, hanity, fox news, abc,nbc cbs are all promoting bush white house dis-info without question. Republicans these days are not even aware that the mainstream republican party is not conservative, but rather neo-conservative (HUGE DIFFERENCE). Republicans these days are blind to many crimes Bush White House has done to the American public. They tend to forget that Iraq war was legally justified by the idea of Iraq had WMDs. Republican controlled congress had a investigation, but TOTALLY IGNORED the very office that was set up by bush's people to be the gate keeper between our intel services and Congress/American public/media. The media doesn't talk about it, Rush says its time to move on, and bush supporters are happy with that, but still seem to be pissed that President Clinton lied about a sex scandal. I would think the "center" would say, that lies to start a war and checks and balances in our gov being worked-around by bush's people would be of concern, but I guess that is just asking too much from the people dumb enough to be satisfied with the piss poor job our media is doing. The media sets the standard for what the "center" is. Astro, Hitler's "big lie" tactic is in full effect in USA (the bigger the lie, the more likely it is to be believed)... Try pointing out that nearly everything a bush supporter believes is PURE FICTION and see the head-in-the-sand counter arguments come into play. Same thing happened in Nazi Germany with the people that supported Hitler... their view of the Nazi's were skewed from reality via a supportive media.... it is very very troubling that it is happening here in America. Spin (let me guess, I was attack for providing links in my last post, now I will be attacked for providing no links on this post) **The office that bush's people set up to be the gate keeper of our intel, and was used to cherry pick and FAKE the Iraq WMD threat is called OSP or "Office for Special Plans"

Hackysack- perfect example of my post 92 If you do not address the data (and not the stuff anyone could pull out of their !@#$%^&*), you will not be addressing the issue. As far as "We can go back and forth posting sites that contradict one another, it wont get us anywhere" - Hackysack The rules are designed so WE DONT throw !@#$%^&* around we know nothing about... I believe EVERYONE would agree that posting links back and forth would be a improvement to what you are doing. Plus lear jett asked for me to back up what I say, and this is a reasonable request. YOU DID HOWEVER p!@#$%^&* on your "The fact sheet is on the amount of oil imported. Are you trying to say that the government is now smuggling oil into the US too? " statement. I gave an opinion and you are allowed to address that. All I can say is; the amount of oil being shipped from Iraq says nothing about what we were talking about... the subject as I recall was "Iraq war had a lot to do with Iraq's oil and nothing to do with the stated reasons Bush used to get us to invade Iraq". That is a example of how "logic questions" are used to get around the facts.. In your case your logic question is "If we invaded Iraq for it's oil, then why are we getting so little of it?", and then you ignore the data that shows the plans and motives of bush's people that planned the Iraq invasion, and say "I won". And that is the reason I have, and you broke this rule... 4. DO NOT REPLY to say something to the effect of "Well why would he do that, If he was going to do that then why are Democrats not calling for his impeachment? " ---- Again, YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO REPLY to the facts and opinions derived from the sources I am using. If you want to say "Spin you are wrong" address the links I provided, show that they are wrong, follow the rules or continue to talk out of your !@#$%^&*.

"Spin, quit !@#$%^&*ing about your ban already. You broke the rules multiple times with multiple warnings. Your ban is justified. " - Hackysack 1. As many have pointed out many times, it does not matter why I was banned; players can be barred from a zone for any reason if the zone owner feels like it. Players have NO rights in sub space. 2. I did break "the rules" multiple times, I do not think anyone is saying otherwise. The "rule" is bull!@#$%^&* and a symptom of why TestTube's zone has more complaints than any other zone. 3. My ban is not justified, I did nothing to hurt the game, and I am careful not to hurt the game. But now we are getting back to the idea that no player in Metal Gear has any rights. "If you dont like the rules of MG, dont play there. Its like playing in an event and getting specced for breaking the rules." - Hackysack No, the difference is any other rule apply to game play, the rule I broke apply to my god given right to say what I want. Again I would understand if I was hurting game play or taking up too many lines and interrupting the flow of the chat, but I was not. I was banned because I was "talking politics". " Just because you dont like the rules and want to do what you want anyways, doest mean you're going to get away with it." - Hackysack And remember what I got banned for... this is what "i was trying to get away with" Aramax> dont go to close to walls Spinsanity> Bush Lied, American's died T Kn|ght> Thunder and rain poring here... T Ba$h> wtf spin? Whoop-!@#$%^&*> yan? T Kn|ght> going to have to log off soon Did you know that MetalGear CTF has a public chat? Feel free to join it and chat by typing '?chat=mg' Take part in the community we have to offer by reading and posting on the forums : www.metalgearctf.net/board : T Whoop-!@#$%^&*> yan? T CrazyCrayon> yan who? T Ba$h> make your post first T Blocks> knight you telling people how to do it? T Ba$h> yan_the_man T Whoop-!@#$%^&*> never heard of him Sylent Chaos> NOOOO Sylent Chaos> LOL Spinsanity> Too bad nobody asked Bush to prove his claims about Iraq were real. Ba$h> STFU spin! Ya... good reason to ban somebody! Nice rule TestTube... good reason to report me Hackysack !@#$%^&* ya I broke the rule... the rule should never of existed in the first place. Its not like the rule has anything to do with the game, or is something that is done everyday in other zones or even in Metal Gear zone as long as its computer talk and not political talk. I do what I do for a reason, its part of my game play, I do not interrupt the game play. What I did do was say something that pissed people like you off. I find it funny that Hackysack is one of the guys pushing for a ban on political talk. here is why Hackysack and I chatted several times on Metal Gear about politics in private chat, then turns backstabber and complains to the mods and/or TestTube that I am talking politics in public chat, TestTube didn't like what I was saying, so TestTube made up a rule and enforced it. Like everyone keeps telling me, players have no rights in Sub Space. I think its high time they were, No accountability == dictatorship (TestTubes version of the SSC zone dictatorship is a Fascist one, TW's version is not that way)... having the zone owners accountable to SOMEONE, ANYONE, maybe even to the players, creates a Democracy, and reduces unnecessary problems and will help increase the number of players on the SSC network. Hackysack seems to like to talk politics, but when faced with something he doesn't agree with, he lobbied successfully to get me banned from Metal Gear. I am lobbying to change how that can occur so easily. !@#$%^&*, it might even approve the at!@#$%^&*ude of the players in Metal Gear.

Lear Jett- perfect example of my post 92-AGAIN! "Do you believe everything you read, Spin?"-Lear Jett You broke rule #2 2. YOU can not say "this is liberal" or "this is biased" or "look at that link, how dumb, anyone can say stuff on the internet" ---UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW that the articles given are presenting a half-truth by not including RELEVANT other factors/facts OR that the facts presented are simply wrong. Keep tryen Lear Jet, Makebe you can break all the guidlines and remain dumb and prove my point about misconceptions and why people continue to believe them. But actually, I believe you are just here to cause trouble or make non-sense arguments.

Lear Jett- perfect example of my post 92 If you know the general concept, do your own research The links addressing Hackysack's comments above show some of the specifics to some of the issues about bush's policys being bad. To get other general reasons that you may not be aware of, listen to that link I emailed you, then follow up. But as you said, "I do not have the time", so lear jett you will continue to post the same questions. Maybe you should think of a way you could get beyond this trap. Make the time maybe?

Spinsanity's post #92 vs "So far no one has "rejected" any source you've provided. We've just pointed out the bull!@#$%^&* in them, and showed you how they're wrong" - Hackysack Sorry Astro if I go outside the bounds of your topic, and Aileron I hope some of this addresses your post, but this is mainly about Hackysack's response to my post 92. Your post is worth of a new topic thread (and good effort, I read it all) I think most of this can be spun off onto other threads, but remember, I am not the one that expanded this subject (on this thread). However this is a good test case of Astro's orginial topic. To Hackysack and Aileron specifically... I INSIST that you review (read) and research (verify and look for VALID counter arguments) ALL of the sources I give, BEFORE you post ANY reply ---anyone else reading this may find the sources interesting too. GROUND RULES for replying - derived from my post 92 1. YOU HAVE TO READ ALL links given for the specific topic; reply ONLY to the sources I give, if I do not give a sorce you may reply to my opinion. 2. YOU can not say "this is liberal" or "this is biased" or "look at that link, how dumb, anyone can say stuff on the internet" ---UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW that the articles given are presenting a half-truth by not including RELEVANT other factors/facts OR that the facts presented are simply wrong. 3. IT IS REQUIRED that you show a source that is closer to the subject than I am using. Example- "spin your article says that Bush is doing something, well lets have what Bush said and not what someone said, here is my source" 4. DO NOT REPLY to say something to the effect of "Well why would he do that, If he was going to do that then why are Democrats not calling for his impeachment? " ---- Again, YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO REPLY to the facts and opinions derived from the sources I am using. 5. You can use the argument of "this can not be verified", ONLY after you have TRIED TO VERIFY. In addition you MUST make some attempt to verify that the source you are using is valid..... Honor system here guys! Topic 1: "You believe in this huge conspiracy that the Republicans are these evil people who are trying to take over the world and destroy mankind." - Hackysack Hackysack IS WRONG! Here is what the facts are, and I agree with the facts. The Republican Party is dominated by Neo Conservatives, NOT by Conservatives. The Neo Cons have made their home in the Republican Party, Limbaugh and other main stream media Republican talking heads are promoting Neo Conservative policys as being the both Conservative and Republican. Many Republicans are not aware of what is happening in their own party. Bush's policys are Neo Con policys, Neo Conservatives policys that Bush is implementing are indeed to dominate the worlds resources for American corporate interest. If this will benefit you or if this is good for America are outside the scope of this topic. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...32/ai_101448333 http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm http://www.shockingelk.com/text/neoconservative/ http://www.againstbombing.org/howtookover.htm (some minor problems in wording, much valuable info) Topic 2: "All you do is try to compare Hitler to Bush, which is ridiculous." - Hackysack Hackysack IS WRONG! There are infact MANY strong comparisons, and yes I know Limbaugh and other Right Wing talking heads do what they can to say otherwise. http://www.awitness.org/journal/bush_hitler.html http://www.amconmag.com/06_30_03/feature.html http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0122-10.htm http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm Topic 3: "There is not only no proof that we went there for oil " - Hackysack Hackysack IS WRONG! But there are other reasons, just none that Bush has told ya about. (Other links in this post will point to some of the other reasons). http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_pr.shtml http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4830129/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm Topic 4: Spinsainity's commentment to political conversations in Sub Space "I gave you a government source that was a fact sheet on the import of oil from the Gulf Coast. As soon as I sent it to you, you started to change the subject without even taking a look at the source I provided." - Hackysack Hackysack IS WRONG! Actually YOU are the one that changed the subject. As it stands now I assume the source you gave me is correct (and I did go to it). But the amount of oil we are getting HAS NO DIRECT RELATIONSHIP to the subject of the motives for Bush's wars... in other words, there is MUCH better evidence than what can ONLY BE INFERRED by how much oil is actually being shipped to USA. As you can tell from the above links. "You don’t even bother going to most the sites given to you" - Hackysack Hackysack IS sorta right sometimes. I do try, and VERY OFTEN I do, the times I do not, I am sorry. Since I play in windowed mode, I can only take screenshots or manually type a long url in while I am playing. I do try and I believe I will start logging my game play more to avoid this problem. "I believe that Aileron has described what fascist systems are like." - Hackysack Hackysack IS sorta right, Mostly wrong Yes, Aileron in another topic gives the a textbook description on the basics of a dictatorships > http://www.ssforum.net/c/index.php?showtopic=7252#. Yet in another post he quickly went off track with respect to Nazi Fascism > http://www.ssforum.net/c/index.php?showtopic=7935&st=30# (see post below for correction of some of Aileron's claims) Aileron, see if this jives with what you know all ready. > http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/germany-1933.htm Spin Related topics: And lear jett.. Bush is only the figurehead, the real problem is the Neo Conservatives in the Republican party, and the very real danger is that they will simply push another figurehead in the 2008 elections and keep the same policys in place. (A dictatorship via pushing a candidate they want us to vote for via Right Wing media and opinion). But as it stands today, the buck stops with Bush. ANY non reply, and we will assume I am making largely correct arguments using largely valid resources. Please see rules for reply.

I am working on getting some logs of my public chat, I will edit them in here later If I get any. If anyone is interested, above--I posted some screenshots of what TestTube and I were talking about after I got banned for this. I find it hard to believe that no one holds the owners accountable to common standards and interest of the SSC network... Without this "for the common good" accountability you will get these excessive bans (or being banned for "freedom of speech issues". The individual owners will get a god complex, cronyism follows then you get the corrupt-guard/sneaky-prisoner (mod/player) thing going and it becomes normal, when it need not be that way. A little quality control of the SSC zones coupled with asking the owners to think about the SSC network would go a long way. I hate to put it this way, but since I noticed that Lear Jett told me- "You know, there are other servers to play in" (Reason I hate it... Lear Jett knows damm well if I didn't care about THIS zone I would not be !@#$%^&*ing) I will sum up what I said above in Lear Jetts style- To Zone Owners: If you do not want to help improve the SSC network and come up with a few common standards and participation for the "common good of the SSC network" then there are other billing servers. Just sayen... they already put in a big sacrifice, it is not asking alot to make a improvement or two, even if does mean a little outside interaction. Since no one else seems to have a example of my public chat, I am working on getting some... then everyone can see why TestTube and I disagree. (And why kolar seems to hate me very very very much hehe) spin payine no big letters-- happy?

Astro, here are some points I would like to make 1. When I was using the term "fascist" I was being literal, in other words, some have the MINDSET or the inclination to easily support such a system, with little to no problem. The reason I got a such a reaction from people like lear jet and Aileron is because they do not know what a Fascist system is like. And America's current Republican Party and its propaganda has indoctrinated them into much Fascist thinking, but as any good propagandist knows these days, the propagandist do not call it Fascism, they call it "Conservative". Which leads to point 2. 2. Lear Jet and Aileron have been taught not to think for themselves, and have been taught that if it does not come from a "Conservative" source it must be "biased" and to them that equals a lie. They will goto any length no to look too deeply into a subject and will only trust "Conservatives" sources because they are not "liberal" or "biased", which to them means "not true", which means they have done enough research and and KNOW that they are right. In other words, if you present ANY argument that is contrary to the "Conservative view", they will automatically assume that wrong... THEN they will answer you back with something like an insult or "that is not true", or ANY other argument that does not address sources or data or the facts. 3. They will ALWAYS have TOTAL faith in their "Conservative" source, they will ALWAYS reject any other source without and research, they will 90% of the time, try to throw back some logic question, like "why would they do that?" instead of sticking to the data, because they will ALWAYS claim you have no valid data, THEN they will tell you that they "won" the argument. 4. The reason they feel that they can trust their sources is due to the fact that the system of the "Republican echo machine" is set up in such a way that one propagandist re enforces the other (they use the same talking points). And as Hitler said, "the bigger the lie, the more inclined they are to believe it" And yes, our media sure does lie about some major imporatnt issues, so does bush. And no, it has never been this bad before, and no I do not see any type of reform coming soon :/ 5. The best way help these guys is to make them stick to ONE subject, present your best data (sources), NOW THE TRICKY PART-- make them actually review the data, then have them try to refute your data with data they bring to the table-- and go from there. 90% of the time they will say "I am not going to read this "liberal biased stuff" even if the source is not liberal. Basically, if you do not insist that they actually read your source, you will end up with what you had on your page 3 of this topic. hehe I am not trying to pick on lear jett and Aileron, and I do not think they are Fascist, but I do think they have been conditioned to behave this was, by the cues given from the mainstream right wing talking heads. And it does take some effort to break that cycle. And honestly as far as I can tell, the right wing talking heads that they trust are lying on a massive scale, and at the current time there simply is not this behavior being done of the left side of the isle. And I truly believe this is the time to !@#$%^&* about it, actually I more than half way think its too late to !@#$%^&* about it, this is much worse than say Vietnam era news/opinion media working with the military-industrial complex. (Before you say that concept is a "consericy theory" 1. check who warned of this danger (hint: a the last good Republican Prez we had 2. Much has been written on the subject as being a real and growing problem) Oh and then there is that problem that not special to any political party... It does take time and effort to actually look at the data, rather than have a talking head feed it to you, and yes, even liberals get stuck on trusting their sources too much.... but I do see the typical right wing rush Limbaugh person much more unwilling to actually REVIEW the evidence before dismissing it.. due to reasons 1 - 5.

And I am accused of spam? Paine, am I hitting a raw nerve? Yes, the links have everything to do with TestTubes political ban, TESTTUBES OWN WORDS and his OWN at!@#$%^&*ude toward the members of the SSC network. Paine, your one of TestTube's cronies... tell him to post here. spin

Metal Gear's Political Ban Revealed! Kolar is right --- some data will help continue this discussion. I stay in windowed mode and I normally do not log my chat, so screen shots is the best I can do. When I started this protest, I figured TestTube or someone else would present this stuff, I was wrong--Kolar reminded me. I did blur out some private chat not related. I took screen shots of TestTube's chat because I was shocked at getting banned due to "political talk", Otherwise the screen shots were taken because I needed the info later or by accident. Thing on the right is a TV window. What Spinsanity does.. random sample (when chat gets heavy, I take it to private, I do not interfere with team chat, I do not interfere game play, I make it part of my game play, yes people react to it) http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/spin1.jpg http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/spin2.jpg GW Bush got me! .. can't remember if I thought it funny or if it was totally accidental screen shot. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/gw.jpg TestTube's discussion when he banned me. According to TestTube it was due to my political chat. He makes it clear HE is the only thing that matters in Metal Gear. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/tt1.jpg http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/spinsainity/tt2.jpg I am not flaming TestTube and Metal Gear, I am only pointing out a problem. The reason you do not see TestTube posting in here is simple, as it stands now, he is accountable to no one. Spin.

Hay Spin here, Found data -found screen shots, including TestTube discussion about no political talk in Metal Gear btw, if you have any logs of my chat.. post them I does not feel right for me to post messages in Sub Space just to record them at the moment. I will post links to screenshots later Oh and Kolar, reason I made that comment to you about Canada and politics, as I recall I was talking to a American Bush supporter about something I was wanting to keep on track, and I needed you to be quiet for a bit, as I recall -- IT WORKED! heheh

Rofl, that sounds impartial and worth reading... Read it u dummy!, It is from a conservative right wing congressman, ya he has a right wing slant, but he is largly correct. Also try to google the term "neo conservative" and use whatever source you see fit. You never tell us any of the lies, Spin. You tapdance around the whole issue. Give us something to debate!Here is what I want you to do, goto http://mediamatters.org/ pick one article you find that is in error (and calling it "liberal" doesn't equal being in error). Then bring it up on Astro's forum, or start a new topic. I would very muich be interested in the subject you uncover as being in error and your source to back up your claim. See ya later, spin.

Disturbing pattern of behavior Kolar, your sorta annoying too, but I am not out to ban you, nor do I wish that you wonder into a bad zone-owners sight and get banned for little to no reason. I am protesting against this behavior for you Kolar as well as me and everyone else on the SSC network. As everyone that takes TestTubes's rights of server ownership points out, he can ban anyone he wants for any reason. As you put it "No one is there to make sure you get treated fairly." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars) Lets take your points, "he [TestTube] pays a lot of money out of his own pocket for you and everyone for nothing to play MG, could you not at least acknowledge and respect that?" -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars) Whats not to respect? The problem is how TestTube chooses to do with what he has created, and how he treats the people that wonder into his zone. As a side note... I ACTUALLY DO RESPECT Kolar's ZH skills, Kolar is a excellent ZH, every time I have ever had a question or had to do a ?cheater, Kolar has always been right there (no matter what name I was using). Trying to get me banned, I have to say I do not agree with, and I didn't agree when you and ephemeral tried a few years ago for the same reasons as TestTube banned me. ephemeral == TestTube? hard to tell. "......if anyone of the SSC members actually saw what you do in game they'd agree, anyone would." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars) I do not hide how I play Sub Space, I believe darn near everyone has seen me play in TW, records exist of my game play and chat, I talk to players day in and day out. I do not spam, I do not har!@#$%^&*, I do not interfere with game play, apparently I DO agitate some people (go figure ), I do change zones, and sometimes I may not respond to everyone on all occasions, but I try. (If I responded would you also call it spam or har!@#$%^&*ment? Just asken) "People who don't want to see politics, or your version of it in SS and on here are NOT Nazis, facists or anti-American." -Kolar (Zone Helper in Trench Wars) I never said they were, I do however say how TestTube and his staff oppressively treats the people that come to his zone, in a Fascist sorta way. I started out my protest on the SSC rules forum, and TestTube's sys op SVC locked the thread. In that forum I found that I was FAR from the only one that has a problem with TestTube's behavior. Metal Gear has a disturbing pattern of behavior... Kolar and others, I want you to read http://www.ssforum.net/c/index.php?showtopic=7603 I do not care if this guy was cheating or not, what MG's staff did to this guy is unacceptable in a network where we are trying to build a community. Pay attention to the conversation the banned guy had with TestTube before TestTube net banned the guy (near bottom of page one). I had about the same experience. I started this protest because TestTube was threatening a one year net ban on me, it looks like this I was not the first. And how people treated the banned guy while they were posting on that forum wasn't all that nice either. Kolar, you feel strongly about my political talk and resent it so forcefully you will tend to remain fixed to the issue regardless if your concept is found to be completely flawed. Kolar you do not have to support me, but take a look at who you are supporting, for now please go with me on this one. Spin Mr. Bak, I only said it would be interesting to find out how the deal with ABC and the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund got worked out. Public relation companys are not in the habit of telling how and why things are worked out. I am pointing out that Bush jr's failure to respond to the Tsunami disaster for days, and his failure to respond to the disaster in New Orleans for days make America look bad, the teaming up of Bush Sr. and Mr. Clinton to a cause called the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund is simply damage control for GW Bush making America look bad. (Can we expect a pre recorded bush jr speech at half-time? Bet me!). As far as ABC is concerned, Disney, parent company of ABC, has turned most of its extensive radio network and owned-and-operated stations into a 24/7 orgy of right-wing talk. (Sean Hannity is their poster boy.) As far as politics and tonight's event... I find it interesting that Mr. Clinton used today to distance himself from bush's policys. Politics being involved with the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund? Go Figure! Lear Jet, Liberals can be totalitarians too, we call them Communist. The pattern of abuse that I am !@#$%^&*ing about on the SSC network is a symptom of Right Wing influence, Bush White House lies for war did not come from the left. As I always point out, Bush's politics are neo-conservative, not conservative, there is a HUGE difference. Neo Cons are not Conservatives, Bush isn't a Conservative, Limbaugh, O'Riley and the Right Wing radio talking heads are not Conservative, They are Neo Conservative, go back to that article I posted on Astros link called "Neo Conned" to find out more.

Mr Bak, I agree with everything you say, except the part that the fund that Monday Night Football will be promoting is not political in nature. I stand by what I said, the message is designed to help Bush's image by default. The Pat Robertson Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message. The Bin Ladin Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message. The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund - Sends a political message. On the other hand the Salvation Army's Katrina Relief Fund - Does not send a political message. The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund - is crisis management for Bush White House officials handling the Hurricane Katrina disaster. The message is... "let us set our differences aside, let the mistakes of Bush's actions go down the memory hole, let us get behind our President and help out".. Bush has done everything he can to divide this nation. The Bush-Clinton Katrina Relief Fund is named the way it is to reverse this damage The tidal wave fund Bush Sr. and Mr Clinton represented was largely for the same reason. I am SURE if you checked out why ABC chose this fund, you would see what I am talking about. I hope you agree more with the rest of my points Spin

http://www.allfloyd.com/images/the_wall/hammer.gif TestTube's Jackbooted Police State Emerging on the SSC network Thank You Aileron for inviting me into the SSC's free speech zone, I would hate to seen what would of happened to me if I would of posted in TestTube's Metal Gear forum, but judging from how I was treated on TestTube's server to date I think we can all take a guess! Aileron you said, "What if a sports commentator was talking politics in the middle of the Steelers/Patriots game? NFL fans wouldn't want to hear it, they want to hear discussions on the football game." I would like to point out to you that ABC's Monday Night Football already has been !@#$%^&*ociated to right wing politics via their sports announcers, those being Rush Limbaugh and Dennis Miller. In addition, Monday, Sept. 18, 2005 you will have Monday Night Football doing damage control of Bush's Government's mishandling of the hurricane disaster by urging American's to contribute to the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund. The name of the fund is very political in nature, it implys that Bush is a uniter, not a divider, and hay he is trying to help. So actually Aileron football does promote politics. The Right Wing !@#$%^&*ociating itself with sports for promotion of their ideology is very accepted in America today. Speaking of sports, Hackysack seems to believe that the proper analogy of TestTube's ownership of Metal Gear and its players is like TestTube owning a sports team. Well Hackysack you can go around all day and claim your alarm clock is a rooster, and you can present your evidence as being that the your "rooster" wakes you up every morning at sunrise, but you would be mistaken. TestTube does NOT own a sports team, rather what he owns is a sports arena, and the SSC network are the roads to that arena, with the Sub Space software being the rules for the game play. The people the visit TestTube's arena are both the fans and players. TestTube owns the arena, while the SSC network owns the roads and billboards promoting Metal Gear. The people that own the Sub Space software are the owners of the game that is played in TestTubes sports arena. TestTube gives the impression that he does not have to answer to anyone, not the people that own the roads to his arena, not the people that invented the game, not the players and fans that show up for the event. Legally TestTube may or may not be correct, but it is the Sub Space community that TestTube's actions betray. As TestTube's cronies have pointed out, they are not concerned with the players; the players have no rights in Metal Gear. The only rule in Metal Gear is the rule of what TestTube wants and his desire to "maintain peace and order" (according to Hackysack). While not legally obligated, other zone/server owners using the SSC roads try to build a community where the players and guest are respected and honor players rights, fair play and freedom of expression is tolerated in every SSC zone except for TestTube's zone. Hackysack, Trained, Paine, Kolar and those that support TestTube's position, you will have to wait until you find that you disagree with TestTube to figure out where you stand with respect to TestTube's server. Perhaps a disagreement is brewing, perhaps TestTube would want you to back off restating over and over that TestTube owns the server and players in his zone have zero rights. Perhaps TestTube would somewhat like to maintain the illusion that players can enjoy his zone as long as they do not violate the norm of the SSC network. Hackysack, keep calling long time players "morons", talk to TestTube and see if he thinks this is wise, then notice who wears the pants in your relationship. Some may wonder if I would continue to talk politics if I was unbanned, well I see no reason why any of us should have to "set at the back of the bus" in Metal Gear. After all, remember when you see that crazy guy holding up the John 3:16 banner on Monday Night Football, remember the owner of that arena doesn't kick him out, even if he legally had the right to do so. Notice also that many others bring banners to a football game, I was one of those that brought a banner to a arena. I got kicked out of TestTube's arena because some fans and players did not like my banner. Meanwhile no one will be kicking out Bush's damage control "banner" on Monday Night's football game. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/do!@#$%^&*entaries/images/fascism_football_lead.jpg In Metal Gear, the goal is to "maintain peace and order" The real question isn't what I will do when the ban is lifted--- the real question is what will it take for TestTube to change his policys to reflect the norms of the other sport arena owners and the owners of the roads and billboards that help TestTube's zone? What will it take for TestTube to respect American Democracy, even if he is not legally bound to do so? Spin