La Muerta Rosa

I would have to side with maverik on this one, you generally just post off topic drivel or constantly argue about the most recent diciplinary action taken against you. Oh but you are the victim here... i forgot.

I believe delic has been getting high on cough syrup.

I dont think one hit kills have any place in this zone (lack of one hit kills is pretty much why i play here), i urge you to reconsider the weasel mine.

I dont see any harm in this, and perhaps it would help liven things up for those bored of pub.

"All you've done is read one sentence, interpreted it incorrectly and made a fool of yourself." Look sever im not going to play the name calling game with you. Just because i did not respond to every sentence you wrote does not mean i didnt read them. I hate when someone !@#$%^&*umes i have not considered every viewpoint. I understand very well the balance that must be maintained between attracting new players and retaining old players, and that is what this entire arguement is about. It is not an easy call to choose a plan which will have the desired effect. In the short term,as i have already stated a few times, my opinion is that it is best to put the priority on pub. In the long term maybe we should think of ways to get the older players interested in pub, and not have a bunch of people speccing until an event comes along, then a giant drop in population. Are there any minor changes would get you personally interested in pub again? What about other players? Hypothetically what do you think would happen if javwar split off and became its own zone on the main zone list? Do you think javwar would survive? Do you think 17th would die?

I think that is a poor solution for a minor problem. If you think it is too easy to hold bases once people get entrenched in them, maybe the ship settings should be altered (lanc with bounce anyone?) Warping all players interfears unreasonably with the players who do not play soccer.

Ok show me where i said we should not host events. You hate when people assume you have not considered every viewpoint just as much as i hate when people put words into my mouth. Quite the contrary, i said it before and i will say it again: we need to come up with a workable way to co-exist. As rifleman said, pub needs to have priority over events. That does not mean we cannot have events. With a few restrictions on when they can be hosted, we can still have events, and also protect pub.

The point is that killing pub is not acceptible, even if the players want an event. Take a look at my original post for the reason why.

How do you know that staff is "messed up" while it isn't ? If I say to email your complaints there and something will be done with it, im not lying. I personally garantuee it. "Blame staff" doesn't get you anywhere, because staff actually does alot. Most players don't see that though. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> who watches the watcher?

"This is a stupid rule. If pubbers dont like 17th events then maybe they should play elsewhere." Dont you see how easily this goes the other way as well? If people who exclusively play events on 17th cant understand that the pub arena is what brings population to the zone, maybe they should play elsewhere. In reality neither of these statements is going to help anything though, maybe you should try to think of a way to make it work, make everything run smoothly.... to co-exist. Seems like a much better idea than suggesting that players find another zone to play in... if everyone took your advice we would have a dead zone in a month...

If you are not the last person who died, you wont get evened, so how could you ever lose a high bounty. Unless everyone on your team doesnt die for quite a while, you would never have enough time to get a high bounty. If you really want to safeguard against losing bounty/bounce though, put the power in the hands of the players, educate them to not start reccing/buying bounce until they see at least 1 person on thier team has died after thier last death. They wont get switched til they die, and at that point they wont have the bounty/bounce anymore anyway... I dont see the issue here. I think 3 player difference is a good middle ground between always keeping the teams as even as possible (and thus switching people constanty back and forth) and have no evener at all, and ending up with teams like 9 vs. 3 when a few people quit from one team. Edit: on second thought i can come up with a few senarios where you could still lose the bounce/bounty, they would be really rare though. I dont know what exactly is scriptable, but why not make it impossible to buy bounce with ?buy and instead make people buy them from the bot. That way you can have the bot maintain a list of who has bounce (remove them from list if they die, and other safeguards to prevent abuse obviously). That way if they get evened, the bot can just give them bounce back.

Well im not going to name any names, but this morning a certain staff member hosted 2 events within a 60 minute period, both of which killed the pub population. I confronted him/her in a private message and was basicly told to screw off and stop spamming his/her private message. What can a normal player do when they witness abuse from a staff member, i have tried sending forum messages to the higher ups, and i generally dont even get a reply... In other words, if perni is not around to "whip" them 24/7, how can we prevent this from happening?

The team evener is a nessesary evil to promote fair gameplay, leave it as the last person who died gets switched, and make it kick in when the teams are uneven by 3. Ignore the whiners, problem solved.

Lately 17th has been having way too many sub-arena events. The events themselves are harmless, but the effect they have on pub is not. In order to grow the zone has to attract as many new players as possible, every new player that comes in for the first time, and does not like what he/she sees, is a player who we could have added to our population. When a new player sees 17th on the zone list, and sees that it has 45 players, the player may decide to give it a try. The problem is, we have events so offen that of those 45 players, only 6-7 may be playing in pub (we have too many bots in pub, and too many people idling, but thats another issue). Most of the time, that new player is going to go find a zone with more action, and that is 1 lost player just like that. Every zone should have a strong pub arena, that is where the new player gets his or her first impression of a zone. Events are fine, but when they have such a large impact on the pub population, they are only hurtful to the zone as a whole. The easy solution here is to put limits on when events can be held. A few simple rules could do wonders for the "ghost town pub" problem. Maybe some rules like: -events can only be held when a certain minimum number of players are actively playing in pub -maximum number of players per event must be low enough as not to wipe out the pub population (aka if there are 20 people playing in pub, maybe take only 12 as a maximum) -one event at any given time - one event per time period (events should be a rare treat, not something that happens every 20-30 minutes (familiarity breeds contempt)) Im sure you get the idea... i think these changes would promote zone growth by making sure that 17th always has something to show that player who wanders in to pub for the first time, while still letting the more experienced players have thier events.

"running around in the center killing newbies should not be encouraged" Just because someone likes to fly around in the center killing people, doesnt mean they are only killing newbies. In-game vile said that 17th has always had a mix of people, and that it will not cater to only people that play soccer, nor will it only cater to people who fly around and rec. Although mercilessly killing newbies repeatedly is a bad thing, somehow i question the motive of your quoted statement.

And because there is some confusion over what a dead end is, take a look at the thumbnail picture at the top of this thread the areas that are highlighted blue = DEAD ENDS (there is only 1 way in or out) and the areas that are circled in blue are POCKETS (these limit the "flow" of the center for people who dont care about balling and just want to fly around and fight)

The bases and all that dont matter much to me, i never play soccer anyway. I really cannot handle how small the open area in the center is though, not enough room to run around. If you made the map as tall as it is wide, and took the current pub center and placed it into the new maps center, i would be happy. I like the way on the current pub there is a complex middle area made of of small obstacles, they way the obstacles are situtated makes the map really "flow" nicely. The new map is way to angular and forced, and like someone else said, there are too many dead ends and "pockets" to get trapped in. Long tubes that lead directly off the middle is not something i really care for either. The one thing i do like about the new map, is that the flags are in the bases, and not off in some third base that hardly anyone ever goes to.

In pub, i do not care for how when a soccer game is going, it ends up just a bunch of people attaching over and over, spamming specials, then getting killed. There needs to be something that puts people out of the fight for a longer period of time. Either a higher attach bounty across the board, or a long timeout period when you die. This way each team will have to be more strategic and more careful if they wish to score goals, teams will have to be more co-ordinated. While i am flying around, i always see people spawn, then 1 second later they disappear (attach to someone in a base) I doubt this idea is going to be a popular one, but i think attaching in this manner "dumbs down" the soccer game. It deteriorates the game into who has more people attaching quickly... The ideal for me, would be to set the attach bounty quite high, so that each person would have to spend at least 30 sec-1 minute greening if they want to attach to someone who is already in the base. This would lead to more people accually trying to fly into the base from the entrance, and the front of the base would gain a larger strategic advanatge.