ufotable

Question: Playoff game. #1 Seed vs. #5 Seed. For various reasons, the score is now tied 9-9 with 10 minutes left in the game and the #5 team has 3 players in while the #1 team only has 1 player. All players are burned. Which player in the game today in which ship, playing for team #1, would cause you to think "maybe this game isn't over"? Considerations: - The current #5 team in the standings is Discombobulate. #6 is Llamas. #7 is Backarrow. - If you'd like, feel free to throw in a historic player in addition to your current player. - All standard rules regarding technical settings etc. apply. ufo

It probably is too hard. The seasons blend together for me personally and I have trouble discerning one from the next. My vote for least competitive would be Intrepid crushing seasons 10/11 (though a case could be made for 9-12).

What was the most competitive season? Why? Up to your interpretation. It could be AML, IML, or PRO. It could be because of the quality of the finals, or that there were 3-4 squads who legitimately could have won the title. I don't have a clear answer in mind so I'm very interested in the responses. ufo

Exactly Candy - up to your interpretation. In the stated situation, which (and who) would you most not want to face? Solid arguments for Mop.

Nice compilation! Thanks NFS.

Thanks for the feedback. I probably didn't lay out the scenario correctly. I'm less worried about actual logistics of subbing in a player with 5 minutes left in a match - I agree with you that that would be improbable on any level. The answers I'm trying to tease out are: - In a very tight, pressure filled game with no room for error, who do you think performs best? - This could be because they're going to get the winning kill, or because they're impossible to knock out in that situation and will make getting the winning kill that much more difficult. Or they could just have your number and it adds to your mental stress. Up to interpretation at that point. - A rephrasing to "Who do you think is the most clutch player?" would also be fine.

Thanks to everyone to contributed thoughts and ideas over the last couple of weeks. Question #2: Pro Finals, game 3. The score is tied 8-8 with 5 minutes left on the clock (and overtime after that if necessary) and both teams have no specials left. A player arrives late to the match for the opposing team, subs in burned, and you immediately think "Crap, this is absolutely the worst case scenario for my team." Who is that player? The answers I'm trying to tease out are: - In a very tight, pressure filled game with no room for error, who do you think performs best? - This could be because they're going to get the winning kill, or because they're impossible to knock out in that situation and will make getting the winning kill that much more difficult. Or they could just have your number and it adds to your mental stress. Up to interpretation at that point. - A rephrasing to "Who do you think is the most clutch player?" would also be fine. Not many rules: - Even teams. If it helps, imagine that other than you and the new opposing player, the other 3 players are exactly the same. - Same technical setup. - Historical players have time to acclimate. ufo

My 4 would be 3, aiti, Trav, Dingo 3 as tablesetter/playmaker (dies out only when he tries to do too much against superior lineups, won't happen with the other three players here) aiti/Trav as support/finishers (aiti more explosive, Trav more stable) Dingo as support/glue (positionally perfect will fill in offensive chances and seal defensive gaps) Strong consideration was given to: Nacre, Rage, Chemical, Mushroom

I'll keep posing these as long as I can think of good ones. Feel free to message me in game or ?message if you have ideas. This week's question: If there were one 4v4 game played for your life, and you could pick any 4 players in ss history to represent you, which 4 would you take? One to two sentence rationale. Not many rules: - Assume historical players, many of whom played in a completely different era (Chemical, Mashing etc), are active for 2 months in today's game to acclimate - Everyone has the same technical setup - You are selecting the best version of a player, but they still retain all their historical faults whether that be choke-prone, immaturity, weak teamwork, being stoned constantly etc. Remember, you only get 1 game. That's it! Interested in the responses. I'll post mine at the end. ufo

Looks really even and a round where we'll get a good look at how squads should actually be ranked

Thanks PsyOps + Hallu! A bit laggier but same as ever.

Captor > me

Clearly an oversight on my part. If I'd let Plut speak he certainly would have addressed that most salient of points.

Squad predictions and analysis for season #whateverthisis. We were lazy so it's in chat form and it went a surprisingly long time so we had to take it to a Part 2 to come later. All controversial opinions are courtesy of Plut so please message him if you feel disrespected. Hope you enjoy: ufotable> ok ufotable> hmmm ufotable> is there a list of squads somewhere Plutorus> ok Plutorus> http://svssubspace.com/index.php?page=Rosters Plutorus> im gonna use that Plutorus> should be up to date for the active squads for the most part ufotable> Ok lets start with Assassins ufotable> Looks like much the same roster as last season minus 3 and Ozn Plutorus> and rage, but he's prob afk ufotable> oh good call ufotable> Rage Sai Nacre and Dev/Mop/Sika/Kdak will probably be fine from a teamwork standpoint ufotable> It's easier to be grouped and have teamwork when you're pushing the other team all over the map ufotable> as evidenced in the finals against FTN last season ufotable> even with the prac disparity ufotable> How do you think they'll do this season? Plutorus> three, ozn and bhang are all big losses, but as long as they have the nacre/saiyan pairing, they have the surrounding cast to take my #1 ranking ufotable> oh I forgot bhang went to EGO ufotable> did you actually do some prep for this and rank the squads? now I feel unprepared Plutorus> I think we're in a league where you really need 2 elites to win, and nacre/saiyan fits the bill for them. I think nacre is the best player overall too Plutorus> backarrow next? ufotable> not done yet! Plutorus> kk ufotable> I'd also pick them as #1 ufotable> though I'm not sure who's active and who's not ufotable> Does Jae even play anymore? I haven't seen Sika in months Plutorus> yeah, activity is a big key for them ufotable> Actives could just be Nacre, Sai, Mop, Dev and.... Seven/Penguin? ufotable> If you count coming in and saying "U LIFF" to be activity Plutorus> huge, I'd agree ufotable> Worst case scenario ufotable> lets say only Nacre, Sai, Dev and a random 4th are active this season ufotable> are they still #1? Plutorus> yes Plutorus> unless that 4th is penguin every single game, or important games ufotable> lol ufotable> you know he can bench 1000000 lbs 40x ufotable> don't underestimate ufotable> they're #1 for me too, even in that worst case Plutorus> bebebebebebeb ufotable> ok, BackArrow? ufotable> you're up first Plutorus> ok, backarrow has lost a few key members lately, in savage and fedu ufotable> That's right - I did see Sav hanging out with Llamas ufotable> actually, he played against us this past week ufotable> Fedu is so solid in all aspects and makes the right play more often than not ufotable> big loss I agree Plutorus> not only loss from talent standpoint, which it is, but activity as well; savage and fedu are both active ufotable> Doesn't Sav kinda go in and out from an activity standpoint? Plutorus> backarrow needs to recruit some people fast...or they are heavily reliant on a small core to show up every week ufotable> BackArrow is definitely one of the more active practicing squads ufotable> I see Tuna, Candy, Sabre, Plare, Arc, Jones, and Hook almost daily ufotable> 7 solid actives I think is more than most squads can say - not sure I agree on the aggressive need to recruit Plutorus> hmm, I havent seen Jones much. ufotable> maybe not so much lately hmm ufotable> so 6 actives Plutorus> sabre and plare seem iffy to me, although both are solid. Hook is probably a bit too tentative to hang with a faster paced game right now Plutorus> I see sabre and plare seldom, although they seem more active this week, agreed ufotable> I think you touch on an important point ufotable> The pace on those players vary wildly Plutorus> yea ufotable> Sabre does lag behind, not necessarily in terms of talent but in preferred pace ufotable> Their potential top 4 of Tuna/Arc/Plare/Sabre (or Candy) varies so much in speed Plutorus> its really true, I can see them having pacing issues ufotable> and that probably doesn't hurt them against lower level opponents, but starting with Llama level its a problem ufotable> That being said, significant veteran moxy on this squad Plutorus> one worry I have with a particular key vet is Arctos - he looks bored to me Plutorus> his top game is great, but does he care enough anymore? ufotable> Good observation - he's not nearly as strong as I remember ufotable> not even close ufotable> I think that question is the key to their season, how much does he want it? Plutorus> yeah agreed Plutorus> he can help tuna carry if he's 100% ufotable> I think they're only going to go as far as Tuna and Arc take them ufotable> Both in their primes - this is a fearsome squad Plutorus> definitely Plutorus> ok, beastfu? ufotable> the other thing I like about BA, no one dies for free ufotable> they force you to beat them ufotable> (or the bot to beat them) ufotable> ok Beastfu ufotable> Speaking to GT, these are a lot of RL friends of his from LoL ufotable> with a couple of old faces like Unoid ufotable> what are your thoughts? Plutorus> I love that gold teeth started up a new squad for newer leaguers, but I worry they won't survive much longer. ufotable> I know they no showed this past Sunday ufotable> was it daylight savings or something else? Plutorus> I think it was ufotable> The roster is only 7 people so it's vital that everyone is active ufotable> SS CRIPS showed us it can be done Plutorus> Bukkwild!!! ufotable> yes! ufotable> ok ufotable> quick aside ufotable> can you name one other guy on CRIPS? Plutorus> chronic and macksksksks ufotable> damn Plutorus> $ ufotable> I couldn't come up with anyone nice call ufotable> ok back to beastfu ufotable> I love that they're a new squad as well and the learning curve is going to be steeper this season for the new guys ufotable> .*steep ufotable> hope they stick around all season ufotable> and don't get too discouraged by the losing ufotable> because the losses are coming Plutorus> yeah, they are going to struggle winning a single game ufotable> I've seen Rhino practicing a lot ufotable> he can play and has potential ufotable> Comb has played in league, GT has been around for ~15 years ufotable> Unoid has been around Plutorus> and then? ufotable> cann is a pubber right? ufotable> and I think I've seen spinning in pub? Plutorus> not sure, only recently saw him enter the scene. he's eager (which goes a long way) but will struggle to last for 10+ minutes I think Plutorus> gold teeth to be active, and they need to recruit more pilots now, today, tomorrow, immediately to pull this off. fill the roster ufotable> I think I played a late night 2v2 with cann against Tom Petty and another pubber ufotable> he has an offensive game, but survivability is an issue ufotable> I agree ufotable> we'll leave it off with that, they need 2 more active pilots Plutorus> yea Plutorus> btw, credit to gold teeth ufotable> yes ufotable> all credit to GT Plutorus> league needed a squad like this, and he did it ufotable> If even one of those new guys sticks ufotable> he'll have done more for the game than most Plutorus> yes ufotable> Critical Mass ufotable> You're up first as an ex-CM member Plutorus> Haha, great squad with Three and Ozn leading the way. I really enjoyed flying with them, and I've got them ranked as my #2 team overall ufotable> Whoa ufotable> ahead of OUTLAWS (rebranded FTN)? Plutorus> yep ufotable> wow lets explore that for a second ufotable> head to head, why do you think CM is better? Plutorus> I'm not sure how active Kingnewbie is anymore Plutorus> that would change the equation, but I havent seen him around ufotable> He suffered an injury a couple months ago right? Plutorus> yeah, he's recovering from an accident. ufotable> That could be tough you're right ufotable> If KN isn't active, I'd give the edge to CM as well Plutorus> CM is going to be aggressive Plutorus> I think three washes with bike Plutorus> both in my top 5 players, btw ufotable> I'd take 3 over bike because he plays a more important function within his team ufotable> hard to find a true #1 pilot that will create and force the action ufotable> .*harder ufotable> vs. an elite elite finisher and support pilot Plutorus> three definitely will force the action, yea ufotable> Since you've been a slut and have been on both squads Plutorus> they are both special players ufotable> I won't press you on that =P ufotable> you can be all middle of the road Plutorus> haha no its ok ufotable> Top 4 for CM? Plutorus> I rate them about equally tbh, I think bike can force the action if needed Plutorus> I think in his mind tactically, he doesnt feel the need to. But I've seem him take over games when necessary ufotable> TVB's positioning is so strong as well, he's ALWAYS in the right place to make the play ufotable> and he doesn't miss on chances Plutorus> Top 4 for CM....three, ozn, antihuman and 7th/coarse/devious ufotable> I agree, I would take 3, Ozn, 7th, and Antihuman Plutorus> Jack is a favorite, I think he's a season or two removed from being a really big player Plutorus> if he sticks around ufotable> I haven't seen him in a couple months unfortunately ufotable> He was #1 in TW right? Plutorus> yea Plutorus> he was around last month Plutorus> alot ufotable> hope he sticks and keeps practicing hard ufotable> tremendous talent I agree Plutorus> but last seen more than 10 days ago Plutorus> maybe aliased ufotable> I don't trust coarse or Devious in big games ufotable> the talent is clearly there, but both have styles that don't feel solid to me ufotable> especially in a give and take championship type game where each death matters ufotable> I know you're friends with both so no comment is fine by you Plutorus> im looking at outlaws roster Plutorus> I might change my rankings by the end of this log lol Plutorus> if KN is around, I'd clearly rank them higher ufotable> We'll get another chance to discuss that when we hit OUTLAWS ufotable> I'm also nervous if 3 tries to do too much ufotable> years ago when he used to bang his head against Assassins/Intrepid season after season (mad respect for that) ufotable> he received an unfair label of a choker because as talented as he is, he felt a need to make everything happen ufotable> If he takes early deaths in a playoff game, CM could be in trouble Plutorus> yes Plutorus> three is definitely key for CM ufotable> everyone else is repleacable for me other than 3 ufotable> ready to move on?> Plutorus> ok, discombobulate next! Plutorus> hardest team to .roster? Plutorus> I can never spell it ufotable> Clearly the .roster difficulty champs ufotable> Solar has taken to calling them Disco Queens Plutorus> I like disco boobs even better! ufotable> oooh good call ufotable> Ok so ufotable> Who is Mclaren? Plutorus> good question. Not sure, but he's solid ufotable> dude can play ufotable> but he needs to stay out of lanc Plutorus> in our preseason game vs disco last sunday, they did a great job of using lanc and luring us to boxes Plutorus> my team is a little too new to 4v4 to really understand how bad of an idea that was ufotable> you mean bombs that bounce twice ufotable> in enclosed spaces? Plutorus> but time and again, they would trick us into heading down there ufotable> ya that's a recipe for trouble ufotable> Top 4? Plutorus> mindriot is playing fantastic lately ufotable> and how do you see them doing this season? Plutorus> mindriot, mclaren, rickdog and HMMM Plutorus> not sure who allelujah is Plutorus> I think they will do well, rickdog is really improving Plutorus> wahini is clearly the key Plutorus> you? ufotable> Wahini is old school ufotable> I'd take MR, Mclaren, Pog, and Rick/Acid ufotable> I agree, Mindriot has shown dimensions lately, especially in a spider, that I didn't expect ufotable> he's absolutely key for his team ufotable> When pushing or in a fairly even game, I think they're fine ufotable> but no one on that roster is a strong team player to me and I worry for them in a game against an aggressive opponent Plutorus> I think they have a shot against teams like backarrow and ego ufotable> Hmmmm ufotable> how much of a shot Plutorus> providing mindriot continues to play at this level ufotable> I would give them a puncher's chance Plutorus> yeah, thats probably accurate Plutorus> agreed ufotable> by the way, am I crazy to think that BackArrow reminds me of Jon Fitch Plutorus> Jon Fitch! One of my fav mma fighters ufotable> mine too Plutorus> I think he's the only MMA fighter I follow on twitter ufotable> lol Plutorus> and I LOVE that comparison Plutorus> backarrow tries to wear you down Plutorus> and win a decision ufotable> yup ufotable> they don't beat themselves, and keep grinding and grinding ufotable> reminds of every Fitch match in existence ufotable> ok back to Disco ufotable> where do you see them finishing this season? Plutorus> I see them battling it out with backarrow, ego, dropships, sfe ufotable> They beat SFE convincingly in preseason round 1 Plutorus> you started Mfa but we'll get to that later ufotable> MR lured us into what felt like 30 bad spots Plutorus> they outmanaged us too last sunday, so maybe thats a strength for them. smart play ufotable> I see them finishing below BA and EGO, neck and neck with Dropships ufotable> ready to move on? Plutorus> ya, dropships next. All you ufotable> After Dropships I need to get back to work and we'll take this to a part 2 later Plutorus> k ufotable> ok Dropships ufotable> interesting mix of Port Llast from last season ufotable> and Alpha Reunion ufotable> 4 captains on a squad with 10 people could be too much cooks in the kitchen ufotable> Who is really the captain ufotable> .*many not much Plutorus> sven/nude ufotable> I thought you were keeping out of this! Plutorus> im not sure why I have captain lol Plutorus> oops! ufotable> lol ufotable> Top 4 for me: Plut, Sven, Harm, suicidal dentist ufotable> with Pryde as key sub ufotable> any subs after that are going to have glaring holes in their game or in their experience ufotable> and I'm not sure how active sui is ufotable> he was always on and off for NW ufotable> and I haven't seen him in a week or two ufotable> With their top 5, I'd pick them to finish above Disco boobs ufotable> but that is probably the most compelling matchup of the season ufotable> (other than the 3 championship contenders of course) ufotable> rep, Hall, light all have strong potential ufotable> Light is an all arounder who needs more reps and dueling practice to sharpen up his game and ship control ufotable> Rep has good aim and control, but he and Hall both suffer from sometimes playing like they're in a duelbox or 2v2 box ufotable> and it's not the same game in 4v4 ufotable> I think Sven is going to explode this season ufotable> the talent is there, he's driven as hell, and the improvement over the last 3 months has been exponential Plutorus> he just exploded reading that line ufotable> Plutorus> oops! hi sven ufotable> Not sure who Harm is, but I know he's there in pracs I play against his team ufotable> he's a factor ufotable> Plut is above average in every aspects and a brilliant team player - not many pilots I'd want either on LL or playing in a key game. He's going to make the right decision and be in the right place ufotable> If the top pilots gel correctly and guys (SVEN) make the leap, I see them finishing above Disco and competing with BA and EGO. ufotable> last thoughts plut before we close this log and take it to a part 2? Plutorus> nope, great stuff. Later tonight? ufotable> not sure, we'll figure it out

How about testing the new maps in preseason in game situations? I agree with Ozn's point as well and preseason makes for a low risk way to test how they play.

Spot on, thoughtful assessment of llamas. Thanks for taking the time to write this up.

Good thread - thanks Candy. I'll borrow 3's formatting: Council - Not too late to bring back Schlep. Warbird - Testing with small changes to WB such as removing a rep/limiting it to 1 rocket/removing multi are all worth trying. Since people now have higher res, it's no longer 4 wbs in every game but wb is certainly still the dominant ship. Roster Size - I'd like 8 to encourage more squads, but this one is certainly debatable since it could result in more squads dropping out midseason. Full subs - I agree with 3's idea here. It seems only either fullsubs or empty subs have been discussed, but how about a compromise of 1 rep 1 rocket on the sub(s). 4 man turrets - I like how you're looking for ideas to make subspace more fun, but I personally really dislike playing against turrets and feel it should remain a pub practice. Map - If we were to introduce/rotate different maps like has been done in the past, it would need to be in a way to ensure parity. Meaning, during the season each squad would need to play the same number of games on each of the maps (lets say there are 3 to make this easy). So if 9 regular season games, 3 on each map. All playoffs would then be a best of 3 with one game on each map (borrowing that from Starcraft). Roster lock - I'd also argue delaying roster lock to start of playoffs probably results in more stacking not less. Players can flock to the team most likely to win the championship right before the start of the postseason. I do hear your point about players whose squads have disbanded and that is something that needs to be addressed - how about always starting the season with a phantom squad (we can even call it disbanded) and as squads dissolve players will feed into that squad. It would be able to make the playoffs just like any other. Half baked idea. The immediate problem is parity as some squads would play against disbanded when it's a 12-0 BYE and others would play a squad with players in it. Ref - Thanks to people who run this league. It's been thankless for as long as the game has been around. Balance - Completely agree with 3. Only those utilizing ships to their utmost ability should have a say in balance discussions. For ex: Nacre can make a lot of shots I can't in wb. If I miss a shot, it's more likely that I missed than that the wb's rotation was somehow insufficient for me to point the nose of my ship towards the target and fire in a timely manner. This topic is also argued constantly in Starcraft as Blizzard keeps making balance changes that throw off the game to appease players who put all their units in one control group and move towards the enemy with no strategy. 5 starters from top pro squads voting on any ideas sounds solid. All Star Game - Good idea in theory, but I wonder whether it would either 1) just turn into another prac or 2) have limited attendance. Fun ideas in the past, such as draft league etc, have suffered from apathy and that was when the population was 4x what it is now. Now if there were a juicy incentive (like the MVP of the All Star game's squad starts with 1 extra rocket per ship in a playoff game of their choice) then maybe it would be viable.

I'm also in favor of option 1 - more competitive games in a season full of a blowouts can only be a good thing.

Cap I love your thinking outside the box but I feel that would change league entirely. Just like in pb, what stops me from using the ball to recharge, then passing it to you and shooting you while you're unable to shoot? I'd be interested in an arena with no specials, or maybe just 1/2 rockets per ship.

tool this is amazing. I miss your flash predictions